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Sun 3 Sep, 2006 07:33 pm
I don't accept the whole eternal damnation idea. Of course, there can be rough spots along the way, but eventually you learn to get past it. In a certain sense, I think suffering is a choice. I mean, isn't suffering caused by holding onto false beliefs... separating one's self from God? And isn't a dead person someone who has let go of every false belief, thereby ending any concept of suffering (as well as every other concept)? Sounds like Heaven to me.
I dont believ in any after life, heaven or hell i think both sound terrible. I believ the bible nevr claims there is a hell. i dont know what to think of elightentment,
I said yes, but I really not sure I believe in Heaven as in what Christians call Heaven.
The idea isn't necessarily that of an afterlife; just that whatever it is, it can't possibly be anything conceptual or experiential. At least, such an idea (if it is true) makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. The only idea that does make sense is like you said... nothing (for lack of a better word).
No, no, no... It's "Heaven (or some equivalent, like Enlightenment or some indescribable non-duality)". I don't believe in the conventional Christian idea, myself. (A diluted lot, they are.)
"No, nobody" appears to be missing from the poll options.
yes i noticed that, you dont have any option for there is no after life, enlightenment....
Are you assuming there is some guarantee of life after death? That has not been demonstrated.
BTW, if there is no free will, then a loving God would certainly reward everyone.
Eorl--
Hmmm... Well, I'm not taking into consideration some people's idea of a Heaven where they float on clouds and play harps. What I mean by "Heaven" is just a real end to any sort of suffering. Whatever "Heaven" means, specifically, to each individual... well, that's a different thread.
I guess I could have included the poll option: "No, everyone suffers forever." That never occurred to me before. (Thanks a lot!)
Quote:Are you assuming there is some guarantee of life after death? That has not been demonstrated.
neologist--
I don't think I am. I'm trying not to assume anything about life
or death. I'm working from the foundation that my experience is my reality.
[I'll see you in the "free will" thread.]
I don't know much about the afterlife, but I know this: kittens automatically go to hell when they die.
Kittens in Hell? Well, that's just an outright contradiction!
As far as anyone can tell, I am my body; my body is me. Everything anyone knows about anyone comes from the way they relate to the rest of the world... with their body. What else can be known about a person? I've seen dead people, and they don't have anything to say, at all. They have no worries, no troubles. More than that, before too long it becomes impossible to make out any distinctions regarding their body. They're just an indefinable part of everything... ONE with the Universe.
Since there is a great deal of evidence that consciousness is a function of brain activity, I highly doubt that any form of it can survive brain death. The only heaven or hell that any of us will experience is the one we create for ourselves here on earth.
Terry--
I'm not sure if I believe in the idea of "consciousness", but I am interested in taking a look at some of the evidence you refer to. Do you know where I can find it? (I'll do some searching on my own, too, and see what I can dig up.)
Perhaps without realizing it, Terry was referring to the words at Psalm 146:4, speaking of a person's death as when "he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish."
So, can there be no "consciousness" without "thought"?
echi wrote:So, can there be no "consciousness" without "thought"?
Of course there can be consciousness without thought.
Take what Ken Ham said recently about Steve Irwin's death...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2006/0904irwin.asp
Ken Ham is obviously conscious, but there clearly wasn't any thought for the bereaving family when he made that statement. In fact, I doubt there was any thought in this shameless capitalisation on someone else's death.
echi wrote:So, can there be no "consciousness" without "thought"?
Now that I think about it - that is correct
neologist wrote:echi wrote:So, can there be no "consciousness" without "thought"?
Now that I think about it - that is correct
I think so, too. "Consciousness" is an outdated idea (in that sense). When the body dies and the brain ceases to process information, then the person is released from being a person... maybe released from "being", altogether. That fits just fine with my idea of "Heaven", as I put it in this thread.
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