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Wed 16 Aug, 2006 10:55 pm
The back ground:
I agreed to take on an extra child for three weeks and it has become a bit of a mess. My niece is in day-camp, I pick her and a friend (both 6 and no-longer friends at this stage) up at 4 and I watch the friend for less than 2 hours per day. She is unlike any child I have ever known and I am woefully unprepared to deal with her. And neither is my niece.
The incident was the following:
I have a small, 4-door economy car. I drive three kids back from camp, one little on in a bulky carseat, the friend in the niece's booster seat, and the niece in the middle. There is very little room for her there and she gets elbows from both her brother and her friend. A couple days ago they started agruing about space. My niece complained about being squished, the friend saying too bad and leaning on her even more. My niece explaining her discomfort more, the friend leaning harder and shrugging. I listened and I watched and then I pulled off the road. I went around and pulled the friend's booster away from my niece and told them we'd measure the back seat when we got home. I was in the process when her dad came to get her, both kids were in opposite corners of the house. Today, there was masking tape running down the seat to mark the friend's, but she still found her way to squish my niece.
The big problem is this:
Yesterday, I made a bad move by telling my niece that her friend was, indeed, being 'kind of obnoxious'. Today, after a subsequent fight between the kids, the two closed themselves off in a side room to talk and I listened to part of their conversation. My niece was trying to talk about it, through it and the other refused to talk about it then started saying that she gets so mad she just wants to smash heads. And that her parents are mean to her. My niece wasn't getting what she wanted (a discussion about her feelings and how to get along) and started to get mad. She told her friend (still not her friend) what I said. I bit my lip. The conversation progressed to my niece telling her friend that I didn't like her, which is when I stepped in and was forced to defend the friend. So, I figure that she will tell her parents about it all, or some of it. What do I do if confronted? I was obviously in the wrong because I should have been in control and used different language. Do I just apologise? Do I try and explain the situation? Do I tell them about the smashing heads tendencies (I'd think not)?
Oof. How much longer do you have to put up with the little darling?
I suspect her folks have a clue that she's a, shall we say, competitive child. Is there a sibling? This smells a lot like the kind of sibling rivalry my brother and I got into when we were small.
I don't think you'll hear about it from the parents. If you do, I don't think there's anything wrong with confirming your original opinion about the girl's actions. You didn't say 'she is obnoxious' you said 'she was being kind of obnoxious'. Chances are her parents are more than familiar with her tendancy to be obnoxious.
I'm sure her parents know, but the child is VERY good at playing her audience. Just today with the whole group and maybe tomorrow alone. Perhaps this is why her parents kept offering to give me the day off. I thought they just like being bosses. My fear is that the dad has a short a fuse as I suspect. And that she is a daddy's girl. Maybe he's blind to it and a little nod from the girl will have him yelling at me.....? We'll see.
I even feel badly about manipulating the girl by playing with her extra after the 'discussion'.
Thanks for the support and advice.
Re: Oy, bad friends.....
littlek wrote:the other refused to talk about it then started saying that she gets so mad she just wants to smash heads. And that her parents are mean to her.
There is an underlying issue with the childs behavior.
Regardless of what she tells her parents about this incident, and how (or if) they say anything to you, this is not a big deal. Children and grown-ups say things that are not always the right thing. The parents will have to deal.
The thing that I wonder about is, did it hurt the child? Hearing your niece say that you thought she was obnoxious (and regardless of how it was phrased, the child heard the word obnoxious being used to describe her), I wonder if this is akin to something she hears at home? I would hope not, but if she says her parents are mean to her we don't know if involves yelling and calling of names. Hearing things outside of the home might make her feel hurt again. If I were you I would take the child aside for a quiet moment when she is next with you and explain to her that the fighting for space between the two of them made you frustrated and you said something in anger, but it was not directed at either of them, just you getting cranky. Take the sting out of the word so that she feels a little appeased that you are not striking at her personally and just getting stressed because of the situation. Bad behavior still has to be corrected and she needs to know this also. It is not the end of the world for a child to be corrected, but if there are other issues going on in this childs life that others don't know about, it's hard to know if a word or gesture hurts worse than it is really intended to.
Have you read the stuff I posted a couple of places about Sixes? It was a revelation to me, when I started dealing with sozlet's friends going apeshit. It's evidently really, really common that there are just these kinds of issues for 6-year-olds.
I met my next-door neighbor when she was almost 6, and based on the first year and a half of interaction with her I thought she was a deeply disturbed girl and I was really worried about what would happen as she matured and remained our next door neighbor. When she hit 7, she totally mellowed out, and now is sweet and nice and doesn't do any of the horrible things she used to do to sozlet.
That's just background in terms of this might not reflect in any particular way on who she is in a deeper sense or what her parents are like -- it's a really, really common developmental phase.
Can you put the brother in the middle, keep the girls on either side? From what I know about this stage, the friend is probably less likely to be mean to the brother than to S. (I've been doing something very similar -- sozlet, sozlet's friend, and sozlet's friend's little brother in the backseat of the car to and from camp -- and that's how we set it up, worked pretty well. The carseat is higher and works as a pretty good buffer.)
As for the rest of it, what I've done with sozlet as she deals with Satanic Sixes is to just talk to her about it, affirm that she has the right to do what she wants and to NOT do what she doesn't want and if her friend has a problem with that, too bad. We've stopped playing with one Six, things are going better with the other.
I was just about to through my 2 cents worth in when I read Heeven's post. Very close to what I was going to say.
Also, it is possible that the girl does not feel, or indeed receive, love in her life. Many things could add to feelings of unworthiness and I am sure you do not want to add to this.
Here's what I posted from a child development book about sixes on my thread on this subject, "Girls Gone Wild":
[b]Other children mean a lot to Six-year-olds, but again the very nature of Six makes it hard for him to get on well with others.[/b] Two children together may make out very well, at least for a time, but three tend to make trouble.
"Are you playing with So-and-so?" is a constant refrain. (The idea being, as it will be again at Eleven, that if you are playing with So-and-so you can't play with me.)
Friends mean a lot to the child of this age... some, in fact, think so much of their friends that they may fall under the spell of someone (often, from the parents' point of view, unsuitable) friend.
But much of any playtime tends to be rather stormy. Children of this age tend to be very aggressive both verbally and physically. They are also quarrelsome, belligerent, boistrous, argumentative, excitable, emotional. Since Six always wants to win, any kind of competitive game may give trouble, and the loser tends to go aay mad. [b]Six wants to boss and win. This does not make him an easy friend to get along with...[/b]
[b]The Six-year-old is all to often rough in play. He threatens to go home, quarrels, calls names, pushes, fights[/b]. He definitely complains, as noted, that others are cheating and don't follow the rules. And some are very mean to younger children.
Littlek--
You are a part-time nanny for this kid, not a shrink or a confessor. Her bad behavior should not be a secret from her parents.
Her parents should know that she's not behaving well for those two hours a day. "I don't care if I'm squishing you" can be normal sibling behavior with a sibling. For an unrelated child this is a declaration of war--and of internal turmoil. You can lead in to the "smashing heads" comment by asking the parents whether there has been any particular upheaval in her life lately.
Obnoxious? Had you been discussing the behavior, not the child, this word wouldn't be a problem. Your niece needed the validation that this sort of behavior was not acceptable.
Normal children are not designed to be punching bags for troubled children--or therapists.
Two weeks? Fourteen hours? Hold your dominion.
Heethen and Intrepid - yes! I was thinking along those lines too. I'll talk to her. I did explain some of that to my niece (we have some time together without her friend around before her parents get home).
Soz, I will see if I can move the baby seat - good idea!
More about Sixes here -- ignore the grown-up Narcissist stuff.
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html
Quote: "Six can, oh so often, be expansive and out-of-bounds, contrary, violent, hard...to live with."(p. 4)
-snip-
arrogant (p. 7)
self-important ("extremely aware of the importance of being Six") (p. 22)
demands rather than asks (twice on p. 6, 16)
thinks own way is always right (p. 7)
once started, will stick to a course of bad behavior or bad judgment regardless of the inevitability of being punished for it (p. 7)
asks to be flattered and praised as "good," even ("rather sadly and touchingly") following his worst behavior (p. 6)
can't accept criticism (p. 7)
feelings are hurt over very small criticisms, comments, failures (p. 6)
"He is so extremely anxious to do well, to be the best, to be loved and praised, that any failure is very hard for him." (p. 6)
wants to win every time (p. 4, 21, 45)
poor sport, can't stand to lose (p. 7, 16)
argumentative and quarrelsome (p. 21)
defiant, pert, fresh, snippy (p. 6, 17)
competitive, combative (p. 20)
belligerent, verbally and physically aggressive (p. 21)
threatens, calls names, gets physically violent (p. 21)
violent temper tantrums may require physical restraint because of striking out (p. 29)
jealous, envious (p. 7, 21)
to make sure of winning, will cheat or make up own rules (pp. 21-22, 45)
complains that others are cheating and not following the rules (p. 45)
some are very cruel to younger children (p. 22)
does not always tell the truth (p. 16)
will not admit to wrongdoing (p. 41) [Note: A technique is given for getting the facts out of kids that also works with narcissists: instead of asking if they did it, ask how they did it.]
goodness means the things explicitly required or allowed by parents or other authority figures; badness means the things explicitly disapproved of or forbidden (p. 66)
little forgiveness (p. 22)
very critical of others' conduct (p. 22)
expects friendships to be resumed immediately following tremendous complaint and conflict (p. 22)
wants to boss (p. 21)
"Many children think their father knows everything -- even what goes on at home while he is at work."(p. 16)
thinks his teacher knows the best and only right way of doing things; may not know which rules to follow when school rules differ from home rules (p. 18)
"highly undifferentiated -- everything is everywhere" (p. 7)
can't always tell the difference between "yours" and "mine," and so often steals (pp. 39-41)
"random and unconstructive expenditure of energy" (p. 31)
more interested in merely handling or using tools than in what is accomplished with them (pp. 53-54)
less interested in actual final products than in whatever he may be doing at the moment(p. 56)
Re: confronting the parents, I'd tread lightly. I almost lost a friendship with someone I like a lot because I assumed there had to be a Reason her daughter was acting so badly. (It was when I was getting huffy about the other parents involved that the teachers stepped in with the literature about how normal it all is for that age.) You can maybe lead with something sympathetic -- "Wow, this is a tough age, eh?"
I wouldn't confont the parents - I was worried about them confronting me.
Thanks for the info, Soz.
One more:
http://childparenting.about.com/cs/childdevelopment/a/sixyearold6.htm
It's a good summary of what I've already posted, a few more details. It ends with this:
Quote:The six year old craves affection from her parents and teacher. It helps a parent to see the child's obnoxious behavior as a developmental stage (which it is) rather than a lifelong personality trait. Gentleness, a sense of humor, and compromise will head off conflict and emotional outbursts.
hmmm....just my 2 cents about being worried about the parents approaching/confronting you with this.
You don't have any reason to apologize for anything you said. You were having a conversation, and gave your opinion.
Being worried about that is like being held a hostage by the little girl. You can't say the truth because you're worried she's going "to tell" on you.
She's a child, you're an adult. She's in your car, your house, and under your care.
As un-PC as this sounds, she's NOT your equal.
I agree with that, yeah -- I don't think you have anything to apologize for.
ok, dumb question, I really don't know...
Are six year olds not allowed to ride in the fron if they are belted in?
make the bratty kid sit in the front with you.