we say terrorists kill innocent people...

Like Frank, I, too, love America. Perhaps more than most people do. Which is precisely why I abhor, detest and hate the current administration in Washington. Talk about un-American. You've just described Cheney and half of Bush's cabinet. These dudes have made the country I love look like something which it isn't meant to be and was never meant to be -- an aggressive, slobbering bully, an imperialist superpower, ready to step on anyone that gets in its way. That isn't America. That's the Bush vision of America.

Even with millitary operations, I doubt whether the deaths of civilians are as unintentional as they are often portrayed. See my previous post.

najmelliw wrote:

Even with millitary operations, I doubt whether the deaths of civilians are as unintentional as they are often portrayed. See my previous post.

They most assuredly are not anywhere near as "unintentional" as some would portray them to be.

That is what I've been trying to get through Brandon's thick skull...but apparently the thickness is too great to breech.

It disgusts me that people strap explosives to their bodies and detonate them on public buses. It also disgusts me that some people, like Brandon, can be disgusted by that...but manage to appear so accommodating to the excesses of what they consider the "we."

But we have talked this to death...and I guess the best thing is to move on.

Frank Apisa wrote:

najmelliw wrote:

Even with millitary operations, I doubt whether the deaths of civilians are as unintentional as they are often portrayed. See my previous post.

They most assuredly are not anywhere near as "unintentional" as some would portray them to be.

That is what I've been trying to get through Brandon's thick skull...but apparently the thickness is too great to breech.

It disgusts me that people strap explosives to their bodies and detonate them on public buses. It also disgusts me that some people, like Brandon, can be disgusted by that...but manage to appear so accommodating to the excesses of what they consider the "we."

But we have talked this to death...and I guess the best thing is to move on.

No such luck. The difference is immense morally between the kind of accidental civilian deaths which have occurred in all wars, and the deliberate targetting of non-combatants by the Palestinians. If you know of a case in which the Israeli military, acting according to orders, deliberately tried to kill non-combatants, you need only post it.

Brandon

You seem content to think that Israel's the hero in this war, and that the palestinians are the big bad wolves.

But remember how Israel became a state.

How would you like it if someone came to take over your home, your town, your country one day based on a decicion made by many nations on some meeting. What would you do?

The area that is Israel today was given to the jews after WW2 as a compensation for the crimes committed against them. Why that particular area?
Because that is the area the jews were abducted from thousands of years ago according to the bible.

Trouble is that in the meantime other folks have settled there, the palestinians.

How would you like it if your house was suddenly declared indian territory again?

If you ask me the claim the Jews hold to Israel is unjustifiable. It is not their land.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

najmelliw wrote:

Even with millitary operations, I doubt whether the deaths of civilians are as unintentional as they are often portrayed. See my previous post.

They most assuredly are not anywhere near as "unintentional" as some would portray them to be.

That is what I've been trying to get through Brandon's thick skull...but apparently the thickness is too great to breech.

It disgusts me that people strap explosives to their bodies and detonate them on public buses. It also disgusts me that some people, like Brandon, can be disgusted by that...but manage to appear so accommodating to the excesses of what they consider the "we."

But we have talked this to death...and I guess the best thing is to move on.

No such luck. The difference is immense morally between the kind of accidental civilian deaths which have occurred in all wars, and the deliberate targetting of non-combatants by the Palestinians. If you know of a case in which the Israeli military, acting according to orders, deliberately tried to kill non-combatants, you need only post it.

I think the Israelis are doing exactly what they MUST do to protect their country.

But that does not mean that I must be blind to their (or our) intentionally killing innocents and non-combatants.

IT IS A NECESSARY AND UNAVOIDABLE PART OF WAR.

Why can't you get that through your thick skull??????

You're off topic. Start another thread for that discussion.

Quote:

You're off topic. Start another thread for that discussion.

A strange thing to say to me...

Getting back on topic, the US Government has killed 150,000 Iraqi citizens. Out of that 150,000 perhaps one or two have been actual terrorists. Not to mention the 3,000 of our sodliers that have been killed.

Probably because you seem unable to give a single example of it during say the past 25 years, whereas the Palestinians deliberately try to kill women and children like it was a new sport.

My opinion is that anyone who deliberately targets non-combatants is a war criminal, and ought to be either killed in battle or tried before the World Court.

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:

You're off topic. Start another thread for that discussion.

A strange thing to say to me...

Why? People say it to me all the time. We're discussing who's a terrorist and who isn't.

At least most other wars had a reason and defined goals. This war by the US was simply a vengeful act of terrorism.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:

You're off topic. Start another thread for that discussion.

A strange thing to say to me...

Why? People say it to me all the time. We're discussing who's a terrorist and who isn't.

Wanna put it to a vote?

Let's take the vote in Iraq...or Iran...and let's be sure to include the name George Dumbya Bush in the list of contenders.

MY BET: There are tens of millions of people who consider George Dumbya Bush to be one of the world's greatest terrorists...and who consider the United States of America to be one of the greatest of the terrorists nations.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM...but they have a right to think that way...and in a formal debate, their position could easily be argued and sustained.

Terrorism is in the eyes of the beholder.

It is idiots like you on our side...and your counterparts on the other side that cause most of the problems in the world right now.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:

You're off topic. Start another thread for that discussion.

A strange thing to say to me...

Why? People say it to me all the time. We're discussing who's a terrorist and who isn't.

Wanna put it to a vote?

Let's take the vote in Iraq...or Iran...and let's be sure to include the name George Dumbya Bush in the list of contenders.

MY BET: There are tens of millions of people who consider George Dumbya Bush to be one of the world's greatest terrorists...and who consider the United States of America to be one of the greatest of the terrorists nations.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM...but they have a right to think that way...and in a formal debate, their position could easily be argued and sustained.

Terrorism is in the eyes of the beholder.

It is idiots like you on our side...and your counterparts on the other side that cause most of the problems in the world right now.

I think you were about to give an example of the US targetting non-combatants for attack in the past quarter century or so.