Jesus Never Worshipped God.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I think that the problem that these acolytes have is opening their underdevelopped minds...and accepting that the action of praying constitutes as worship...don't you agree, Frank?

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.

I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.

You know how it is with cults.

Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.

This one is a doozey, though.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

Scott777ab wrote:

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.[/i][/u]

So the question is here who was Satan tempting here?

Jesus.

And Jesus said what?

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

This is one of the greatest out right ddeclarationsthat Jesus was claiming to be God. But not just God, but Satan's God.

Hmm......This is fasinating. But my question is if Jesus was alone...how did the disciples know to write this down? If Jesus said it that doesnt make any sense, b/c he usally is so fague and crafty with words....If satan told them that would be a complete differnt side all together.

Scott777ab wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

I don't get what you mean here. sorry. can you elaborate?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

I don't get what you mean here. sorry. can you elaborate?

Sorry even with elaboration you probably wouldn't GET IT.

Scott777ab wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

I don't get what you mean here. sorry. can you elaborate?

Sorry even with elaboration you probably wouldn't GET IT.

Yeah, it's a probability. But you wouldn't know this if you didn't try… would you, Einstein?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

I don't get what you mean here. sorry. can you elaborate?

Sorry even with elaboration you probably wouldn't GET IT.

Yeah, it's a probability. But you wouldn't know this if you didn't try… would you, Einstein?

Just reread it with this sentence correction.

(You should be He) probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.

Setanta has in other threads mentioned, and I agree with him, that it is wrong to think of men in earlier times to be less intelligent then us.

The discussion about the relationship between God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost has raged on for decades. This was in a time where those who discussed the issue were at least all devout Christians (even that holds not true nowadays). They never resolved their issues, instead they chose one way and declared any and all following any other line of thought as being heretic.

So don't expect an answer anytime shortly.

najmelliw wrote:

Setanta has in other threads mentioned, and I agree with him, that it is wrong to think of men in earlier times to be less intelligent then us.

Why is it wrong to think that ancient people were more obtuse than we? The percentage of educated contemporary people now exceeds the percentage of educated ancient people in the time the Bible was written. Do you have at least an idea why you agree with Setanta? Or you just feel like he has it right?

The discussion about the relationship between God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost has raged on for decades. This was in a time where those who discussed the issue were at least all devout Christians (even that holds not true nowadays). They never resolved their issues, instead they chose one way and declared any and all following any other line of thought as being heretic.

What your point here? Is there a punch line stemming from your previous statement?

So don't expect an answer anytime shortly.

Why not?

Intelligence may be bolstered by education, but is certainly not causally depending on it.

Those people lived in times where the total sum of human knowledge was less then the total sum of today,

and, as a result, they had no way of explaining certain phenomena we now take for granted.

Read the works of for instance Aristotle or Plato, or, to stay in the specified time, the work of Augustine of Hippo, one of the church fathers.

These men were just as capable of rationalizing difficult concepts and finding explanations for them as any of us.

Hmm. What I am trying to say is that this is a question (did Jesus worship God, or WAS he God's manifestation on earth?) has taken those people, well versed in the bible and church doctrine, a long time to discuss this and they were never able to resolve it.

So, giving that, I'm saying there is little to no hope for anyone trying to resolve it now while many of atheists or other sceptici will keep on shooting propositions down.

Scott777ab wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not sure what is up with Scott, Jason.
I suspect he has been indoctrinated into a cult that professes that Jesus never worshipped the god that he worshipped.
You know how it is with cults.
Once they get something into their minds...you can't do anything about it.
This one is a doozey, though.

Hey Jason I am not sure what is up with Frank either. So at least me and Frank are on the same page there.
He has been indoctrinated into his cult so throughly that he is unable to open his mind and try to see something from a different perspective. He worships man as the highest of all evolution.
You probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.
Once these science cult guys get something in their minds they are totally unable to see simple and plain truths.
Poor Frank is more than a doozy, he is a dozen of doozies.

I don't get what you mean here. sorry. can you elaborate?

Sorry even with elaboration you probably wouldn't GET IT.

Yeah, it's a probability. But you wouldn't know this if you didn't try… would you, Einstein?

Just reread it with this sentence correction.

(You should be He) probably don't understand how it is with he scientific cult community but trust me there is a conspiracy to remove God from everything.

Much clearer now. But why do think that there is a conspiracy? What is the evidence that supports such thing?

najmelliw wrote:

Intelligence may be bolstered by education, but is certainly not causally depending on it.

Those people lived in times where the total sum of human knowledge was less then the total sum of today,

Are you agreeing that back then people were more ignorant percentage-wise than contemporary people?

and, as a result, they had no way of explaining certain phenomena we now take for granted.

They had a method for explaining what they did not understood…today we call it "myths."

Read the works of for instance Aristotle or Plato, or, to stay in the specified time, the work of Augustine of Hippo, one of the church fathers.

I have read them…now, what's your point?

These men were just as capable of rationalizing difficult concepts and finding explanations for them as any of us.

What does this have to do with the main topic of this argument?

Hmm. What I am trying to say is that this is a question (did Jesus worship God, or WAS he God's manifestation on earth?) has taken those people, well versed in the bible and church doctrine, a long time to discuss this and they were never able to resolve it.

What about considering the probability that Jesus may have never existed? Read the work of Lord Raglan, Otto Rank, and Alan Dundes. There is plenty of evidence revolving around this matter. But don't take my word for it…investigate yourself.

So, giving that, I'm saying there is little to no hope for anyone trying to resolve it now while many of atheists or other sceptici will keep on shooting propositions down.

As I said…there are plenty of evidence concerning the nonexistence of God, gods, Jesus, and the whole enchilada.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

najmelliw wrote:

Intelligence may be bolstered by education, but is certainly not causally depending on it.

najmelliw wrote:

Oh really? Well, you are probably right then, and I must be as dumb as a tack, since I do not understand the point you seem to want to make.

Your brain is engaged in so much brain activity, it seems. It ain't rocket science, my friend.
You said that "intelligence may be bolstered by education, but is certainly not causally depending on it." As you can see, I provided you with the definition of the word" intelligence," which clearly debunks your silly statement. "Intelligence" depends on what we KNOW about anything…do you now understand the point I seem to want to make?

najmelliw wrote:

Those people lived in times where the total sum of human knowledge was less then the total sum of today,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Are you agreeing that back then people were more ignorant percentage-wise than contemporary people?

najmelliw wrote:

No contention. I agree. I'm just arguing that intelligence and ignorance are not mutually exclusive.

najmelliw wrote:

and, as a result, they had no way of explaining certain phenomena we now take for granted.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

They had a method for explaining what they did not understood…today we call it "myths."

najmelliw wrote:

Aye. But there was no system behind those explanations, now was there? What cannot be explained, must come from the unexplainable.

What? What the hell did you just said?

najmelliw wrote:

Read the works of for instance Aristotle or Plato, or, to stay in the specified time, the work of Augustine of Hippo, one of the church fathers.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I have read them…now, what's your point?

najmelliw wrote:

These men were just as capable of rationalizing difficult concepts and finding explanations for them as any of us.

And there were people who were not as rational as others.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

What does this have to do with the main topic of this argument?

najmelliw wrote:

It has to do with your question regarding the intelligence of the people in our past.

Are you trying to say that ancient people knew what we now know about everything else? How can you make such mindless comparison?

najmelliw wrote:

Hmm. What I am trying to say is that this is a question (did Jesus worship God, or WAS he God's manifestation on earth?) has taken those people, well versed in the bible and church doctrine, a long time to discuss this and they were never able to resolve it.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

What about considering the probability that Jesus may have never existed? Read the work of Lord Raglan, Otto Rank, and Alan Dundes. There is plenty of evidence revolving around this matter. But don't take my word for it…investigate yourself.

najmelliw wrote:

Well, what does THAT have to do with the main topic? Because if you choose to argue about the question whether Jesus worshipped God or not, you already accept the hidden premise that Jesus was an actual historical figure.

Are you mentally ill? When have I mentioned that I considered Jesus to be a historical figure? I discuss the apparent evidence found within the context of the Bible that the character named Jesus, according to the Bible (whether he was a historical figure or product of fiction…), worships God or Jehovah in the Bible.

najmelliw wrote:

The second hidden premise here is that the Bible (NT particularly) provides us with a fairly accurate image of Jesus and his actions.

So does the Iliad, which provides us with fairly accurate image of Achilles' being the son of a mortal man and the goddess Thetis.

najmelliw wrote:

As for the authors you mentioned, no I haven't read them. Is there some online work of them that you know of?

I don't think so, but if you want to buy their work just go here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691020620/002-9191600-4837652?v=glance&n=283155

And if you want more evidence about Jesus being an historical inaccuracy, go here:
http://home.ca.inter.net/oblio/jhcjp.htm

You'll find it fascinating.

najmelliw wrote:

So, giving that, I'm saying there is little to no hope for anyone trying to resolve it now while many of atheists or other sceptici will keep on shooting propositions down.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

As I said…there are plenty of evidence concerning the nonexistence of God, gods, Jesus, and the whole enchilada.

najmelliw wrote:

Well, there's the proof, isn't it?

Yes, there is proof…but not the proof you think of.

Let's just take the MOST obvious one. The removal of school prayer during the sixties.
( there is no god to believe in is basically what they want people to believe )

Another the Roe vs. Wade case.
( there is no god to believe in is basically what they want people to believe and sense god don't exist life really don't start till birth which is BS )

The removal of the 10 commandments in Goverment buildings
( again there is no god to believe in )
and on and on and on.

Wrong, Jason. There's a whole enchilada right here on this plate. . .

Er, part of an enchilada. . .

Time for a cool one