I was poisoned once, and layed unconscious for over a day. I sure as heck THOUGHT I was dying. and was absolutely scared to death (excuse the pun) at the time.
Somehow that experience has left me without fear of death, only the reality of how fleeting life is.
the fear exists only when it is considered.
I believe that none of us will ever know (our) death.
All this after-life stuff amounts to fantasy (some imposed on us to control us and some self-imposed to deal with our fear of death). One minute, or less, after my demise I will never have existed; I'll be just as I was before my parents conceived me.
Notice the tyranny of grammar here: I say that "I" will be as "I" was before conception. There was no "I" to exist or not exist before-life--and the same applies to after-life.
We must free ourselves from this cognitive-linguistic trap.
Sorry to have been so obscure. By "the tryanny of grammar" (a phrase from Nietzsche), I refer to the deep seated assumption (derived from and reflected in our grammar) that all predictes have a subject and all actions have an agent. Therefore for me to be "dead" there must be a "me" (an agent of the action or condition of death). But on the occasion of death there results an extinction of the "me" who "(non)exists' as subject or agent in a state (predicate condition) of death.
Opening old wounds, eh?
Mr Nobody,
I thought you were Buddhist? Or was that someone else?
Aperson, I think that what I've just said about the unreality of the "me" (ego-self) before and after our lifetime is consistent with Buddhism as I understand it. EXCEPT that in the Buddhist perspective the "me" also has no substantial reallity during one's lifetime. I didn't bring it up because it didn't seem relevant to this thread.
Ok. I suppose "me" can be interpereted in many different ways.
JL
If there has to be a 'me' to be dead, then we cannot die if the I dissipates upon the moment of death. Then we're not dead, we're just non-existent.
Personally I do not fear death. I've always had the opinion that to fear death is to invite it into your life. Instead of experiencing it for the short time it takes to die, you are experiencing it in every waking moment.
Of course I do not know what awaits, or if anything at all awaits. But I know that the value of my days and nights stem from the knowledge that I do not have an infinite number of them.
Cryacuz: "If there has to be a 'me' to be dead, then we cannot die if the I dissipates upon the moment of death. Then we're not dead, we're just non-existent."
JLNobody: exactly! (except that you may want to "dissapate" your "me" while still alive--to enhance the quality of life)
Yeah, I'm afraid to die. I guess that's natural, otherwise people and animals wouldn't have that instinct to run away. Maybe some people have enough philosophy so that they aren't afraid. To tell you the truth I can't understand much of the real philosophical posts earlier on. But, hey, whatever floats your boat. It just doesn't work for me. On the other hand, I've been in hospitals and nursing homes and when I get to the point that some of those folks are, I'll be thinking about exhaust pipes and hoses. Like a lot of people, I mostly just ignore the whole issue.
JL
If you'd said 'to enhance the quality of death' that would have been really funny.
But I see your point. "I" would very much like to dissipate my "me".
But it is a process, and trying will get me nowhere...
JL
If you'd said 'to enhance the quality of death' that would have been really funny.
But I see your point. "I" would very much like to dissipate my "me".
But it is a process, and trying will get me nowhere...
Cryacuz, you say "But I see your point. "I" would very much like to dissipate my "me". But it is a process, and trying will get me nowhere...."
That's true, trying to "dissipate" your illusory ego (as a believed-in substantial entity) is, IN A SENSE, a waste of time. Why? Because if the ego is illusory there is nothing to dissipate. But to realize THAT is to be almost there. Zen meditation helps one to realize the illusory nature of ego at a far deeper level than one enjoys at the philosophical-verbal level of the intellectual proposition that the self is only an experience, as opposed to a physical thing.
Notice that I'm constrained by our grammar to say things like YOUR ego, or I will dissipate MY ego. We turn ourselves into subjects (I) and object (my) without wanting to. When I say "IT rains" I am not referring to some thing (agent) that is raining (action). There is just "raining." The same applies to "seeing" rather than "I see" or "thinking" rather than "I think"--so much for Descartes' Cogito ERGO sum.
Another reminder of the limitations of grammar is found in my previous statement.
"But it is a process, and trying will get me nowhere".
It is pretty clear what this means, but when it is said about the process of dissipating my 'me', these words actually take on the oposite meaning. If 'me' is nowhere, then 'me' is nothing, and the I would be dissipated.
It is, of course, a wordgame of a sort, but it illustrates that meanings do not follow words.
Also, I see the counsious effort to dispel the "I" as something of a paradox. It's like cracking a rock against itself. It is the sound of one hand clapping.
I do not have a clear impression of the alternative, but as far as I can tell it has to do with suspending thought and abandoning knowledge. But this is an intuitive assessment, I feel that has to be said.
Yes, that kind of meditation is full of paradoxes, the most obvious of which is the attempt by ego to dispel ego. Eventually one moves past that and ego is seen for what it is effortlessly.
I understand JL.
But I do not think I am not quite there yet. I tend to see it in retrospect though. I generally don't make the same mistake twice, even though some mistakes are continously in the making. I know about them, but they're still there..
it depends on where i go if hell it might be fun cause i'll just stab the devil his self in the ass!!! hehe
if haven then all i have to do is relax in a golden massion and cillax but i dont have 2 worry bout that 4 a long time
