1
   

HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL WIDEN THE CONFLICT

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 05:55 pm
freedom4free wrote:
lies


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe ... "

speaks volumes
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 06:42 pm
freedom4free wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
From a very "liberal" site...

Quote:
Israeli soldiers Kidnapped in Lebanon? I think not.
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2006-07-30 10:04. About ImpeachPAC | Impeachment Blogging

News by Ran HaCohenJoshua Frank did an important job in bringing two competing stories about the Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hizbollah: the main-stream story which says they were abducted on the Israeli side of the border, and the alternative claim that the soldiers were captured by Hizbollah on Lebanese soil. I am afraid, however, that this is one of these rare cases in which the main-stream (and Israeli) version is the credible one. Note that the Hizbollah itself, so it seems, never claimed the alternative story was true: it's not Israel's words versus Hizbollah's, but the general media versus unclear sources. Let me try to show why.(1) As for the main-stream story, Frank writes: "Hezbollah attacked an Israeli border patrol station, killing six and taking two soldiers hostage. The incident happened on the Lebanese/Israel border in Israeli territory."-Not quite. The precise story is: Hezbollah attacked an Israeli border patrol station, killing three and taking two soldiers hostage. The incident happened on the Lebanese/Israel border in Israeli territory. Following the kidnap, an Israeli tank crossed the border into Lebanon and was destroyed, in which four soldiers were killed, bringing the number of casualties to seven. Some of the confusion seems to have been caused by these two separate events, which are sometimes conflated in the reports.


HA HA HA HA HA... Laughing

Quote:
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2006-07-30 10:04.


Some fool probably went to a liberal 'blogger' and posted that information. It wasn't you was it ?

HA HA HA HA HA... Laughing

You're going a bit to far to prove this lie McGentrix.

Good try anyway. Laughing

Try this

ISRAELI SOLDIERS
WERE CAPTURED IN LEBANON


The article McG posted appears to have been authored by Ran HaCohen, and first appeared in antiwar.com, where HaCohen regularly posts.

The full and complete article, for those interested:

0 Replies
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 01:35 am
Quote:
The neocons' next war

By secretly providing NSA intelligence to Israel and undermining the hapless Condi Rice, hardliners in the Bush administration are trying to widen the Middle East conflict to Iran and Syria, not stop it.

By Sidney Blumenthal

Aug. 03, 2006 | The National Security Agency is providing signal intelligence to Israel to monitor whether Syria and Iran are supplying new armaments to Hezbollah as it fires hundreds of missiles into northern Israel, according to a national security official with direct knowledge of the operation. President Bush has approved the secret program.

Inside the administration, neoconservatives on Vice President Dick Cheney's national security staff and Elliott Abrams, the neoconservative senior director for the Near East on the National Security Council, are prime movers behind sharing NSA intelligence with Israel, and they have discussed Syrian and Iranian supply activities as a potential pretext for Israeli bombing of both countries, the source privy to conversations about the program says. (Intelligence, including that gathered by the NSA, has been provided to Israel in the past for various purposes.) The neoconservatives are described as enthusiastic about the possibility of using NSA intelligence as a lever to widen the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and Israel and Hamas into a four-front war.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is said to have been "briefed" and to be "on board," but she is not a central actor in pushing the covert neoconservative scenario. Her "briefing" appears to be an aspect of an internal struggle to intimidate and marginalize her. Recently she has come under fire from prominent neoconservatives who oppose her support for diplomatic negotiations with Iran to prevent its development of nuclear weaponry.

Rice's diplomacy in the Middle East has erratically veered from initially calling on Israel for "restraint," to categorically opposing a cease-fire, to proposing terms for a cease-fire guaranteed to conflict with the European proposal, and thus to thwarting diplomacy, prolonging the time available for the Israeli offensive to achieve its stated aim of driving Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon. But the neocon scenario extends far beyond that objective to pushing Israel into a "cleansing war" with Syria and Iran, says the national security official, which somehow will redeem Bush's beleaguered policy in the entire region.

In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves a 1996 neocon manifesto against the Middle East peace process. Titled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," its half-dozen authors included neoconservatives highly influential with the Bush administration -- Richard Perle, first-term chairman of the Defense Policy Board; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense; and David Wurmser, Cheney's chief Middle East aide.

"A Clean Break" was written at the request of incoming Likud Party Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and intended to provide "a new set of ideas" for jettisoning the policies of assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. Instead of trading "land for peace," the neocons advocated tossing aside the Oslo agreements that established negotiations and demanding unconditional Palestinian acceptance of Likud's terms, "peace for peace." Rather than negotiations with Syria, they proposed "weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria." They also advanced a wild scenario to "redefine Iraq." Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain "control" of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them "wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria."

Netanyahu, at first, attempted to follow the "clean break" strategy, but under persistent pressure from the Clinton administration he felt compelled to enter into U.S.-led negotiations with the Palestinians. In the 1998 Wye River accords, concluded through the personal involvement of President Clinton and a dying King Hussein, the Palestinians agreed to acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel and Netanyahu agreed to withdraw from a portion of the occupied West Bank. Further negotiations, conducted by his successor Ehud Barak, that nearly settled the conflict ended in dramatic failure, but potentially set the stage for new ones.

At his first National Security Council meeting, President George W. Bush stunned his first secretary of state, Colin Powell, by rejecting any effort to revive the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. When Powell warned that "the consequences of that could be dire, especially for the Palestinians," Bush snapped, "Sometimes a show for force by one side can really clarify things." He was making a "clean break" not only with his immediate predecessor but also with the policies of his father.

In the current Middle East crisis, once again, the elder Bush's wise men have stepped forward to offer unsolicited and unheeded advice. (In private they are scathing.) Edward Djerejian, a former ambassador to Israel and Syria and now the director of the James Baker Institute at Rice University, urged on July 23, on CNN, negotiations with Syria and Iran. "I come from the school of diplomacy that you negotiate conflict resolution and peace with your enemies and adversaries, not with your friends," he said. "We've done it in the past, we can do it again."

Charles Freeman, the elder Bush's ambassador to Saudi Arabia, remarked, "The irony now is that the most likely candidate to back Hezbollah in the long term is no longer Iran but the Arab Shiite tyranny of the majority we have installed in Baghdad." Indeed, when Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki came to Washington in the last week of July he preceded his visit with harsh statements against Israel. And in a closed meeting with U.S. senators, when asked to offer criticism of Hezbollah, he steadfastly refused.

Richard Haass, the Middle East advisor on the elder Bush's National Security Council and President Bush's first-term State Department policy planning director, and now president of the Council on Foreign Relations, openly scoffed at Bush's Middle East policy in an interview on July 30 in the Washington Post: "The arrows are all pointing in the wrong direction. The biggest danger in the short run is it just increases frustration and alienation from the United States in the Arab world. Not just the Arab world, but in Europe and around the world. People will get a daily drumbeat of suffering in Lebanon and this will just drive up anti-Americanism to new heights." When asked about the president's optimism, he replied, "An opportunity? Lord, spare me. I don't laugh a lot. That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. If this is an opportunity, what's Iraq? A once-in-a-lifetime chance?"

The same day that Haass' comments appeared Brent Scowcroft, the elder Bush's national security advisor and still his close friend, published an Op-Ed in the Washington Post written more or less as an open letter to his erstwhile and errant protégé Condoleezza Rice. Undoubtedly, Scowcroft reflects the views of the former President Bush. Adopting the tone of an instructor to a stubborn pupil, Scowcroft detailed a plan for an immediate end to the Israel-Hezbollah conflict and for restarting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, "the source of the problem." His program is a last attempt to turn the president back to the ways of his father. If the elder Bush and his team were in power and following the Scowcroft plan, a cease-fire would have been declared. But Scowcroft's plan resembles that of the Europeans, already rejected by the Bush administration, and Rice is the one offering a counterproposal that has put diplomacy into a stall.

Despite Rice's shunning of the advice of the Bush I sages, the neoconservatives have made her a convenient target in their effort to undermine all diplomatic initiatives. "Dump Condi," read the headline in the right-wing Insight Magazine on July 25. "Conservative national security allies of President Bush are in revolt against Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, saying that she is incompetent and has reversed the administration's national security and foreign policy agenda," the article reported. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a member of the Defense Policy Board, was quoted: "We are sending signals today that no matter how much you provoke us, no matter how viciously you describe things in public, no matter how many things you're doing with missiles and nuclear weapons, the most you'll get out of us is talk."

A month earlier, Perle, in a June 25 Op-Ed in the Washington Post, revived an old trope from the height of the Cold War, accusing those who propose diplomacy of being like Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister who tried to appease Hitler. "Condoleezza Rice," wrote Perle, "has moved from the White House to Foggy Bottom, a mere mile or so away. What matters is not that she is further removed from the Oval Office; Rice's influence on the president is undiminished. It is, rather, that she is now in the midst of and increasingly represents a diplomatic establishment that is driven to accommodate its allies even when (or, it seems, especially when) such allies counsel the appeasement of our adversaries."

Rice, agent of the nefarious State Department, is supposedly the enemy within. "We are in the early stages of World War III," Gingrich told Insight. "Our bureaucracies are not responding fast enough. We don't have the right attitude."

Confused, ineffectual and incapable of filling her office with power, Rice has become the voodoo doll that Powell was in the first term. Even her feeble and counterproductive gestures toward diplomacy leave her open to the harshest attacks from neoconservatives. Scowcroft and the Bush I team are simply ignored. The sustained assault on Rice is a means to an end -- restoring the ascendancy of neoconservatism.

Bush's rejection of and reluctance to embrace the peace process concluded with the victory of Hamas in the Palestinian elections. This failure was followed by a refusal to engage Hamas, potentially splitting its new governmental ministers from its more radical leadership in Damascus. Predictably, the most radical elements of Hamas found a way to lash out. And Hezbollah seized the moment by staging its own provocation.

Having failed in the Middle East, the administration is attempting to salvage its credibility by equating Israel's predicament with the U.S. quagmire in Iraq. Neoconservatives, for their part, see the latest risk to Israel's national security as a chance to scuttle U.S. negotiations with Iran, perhaps the last opportunity to realize the fantasies of "A Clean Break."

By using NSA intelligence to set an invisible tripwire, the Bush administration is laying the condition for regional conflagration with untold consequences -- from Pakistan to Afghanistan, from Iraq to Israel. Secretly devising a scheme that might thrust Israel into a ring of fire cannot be construed as a blunder. It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/salon027.html
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 03:12 am
Quote:
Neocons Rise From Mideast Ashes


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-33.htm
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 03:19 am
Quote:


Qana Massacre
Robert Fisk



It was a massacre. Not since Sabra and Chatila had I seen the innocent slaughtered like this. The Lebanese refugee women and children and men lay in heaps, their hands or arms or legs missing, beheaded or disembowelled. There were well over a hundred of them. A baby lay without a head. The Israeli shells had scythed through them as they lay in the United Nations shelter, believing that they were safe under the world's protection. Like the Muslims of Srebrenica, the Muslims of Qana were wrong.

In front of a burning building of the UN's Fijian battalion headquarters, a girl held a corpse in her arms, the body of a grey- haired man whose eyes were staring at her, and she rocked the corpse back and forth in her arms, keening and weeping and crying the same words over and over: "My father, my father." A Fijian UN soldier stood amid a sea of bodies and, without saying a word, held aloft the body of a headless child.

"The Israelis have just told us they'll stop shelling the area", a UN soldier said, shaking with anger. "Are we supposed to thank them?" In the remains of a burning building - the conference room of the Fijian UN headquarters - a pile of corpses was burning. The roof had crashed in flames onto their bodies, cremating them in front of my eyes. When I walked towards them, I slipped on a human hand...

Israel's slaughter of civilians in this terrible 10-day offensive - 206 by last night - has been so cavalier, so ferocious, that not a Lebanese will forgive this massacre. There had been the ambulance attacked on Saturday, the sisters killed in Yohmor the day before, the 2-year-old girl decapitated by an Israeli missile four days ago. And earlier yesterday, the Israelis had slaughtered a family of 12 - the youngest was a four- day-old baby - when Israeli helicopter pilots fired missiles into their home.

Shortly afterwards, three Israeli jets dropped bombs only 250 metres from a UN convoy on which I was travelling, blasting a house 30 feet into the air in front of my eyes. Travelling back to Beirut to file my report on the Qana massacre to the Independent last night, I found two Israeli gunboats firing at the civilian cars on the river bridge north of Sidon.

Every foreign army comes to grief in Lebanon. The Sabra and Chatila massacre of Palestinians by Israel's militia allies in 1982 doomed Israel's 1982 invasion. Now the Israelis are stained again by the bloodbath at Qana, the scruffy little Lebanese hill town where the Lebanese believe Jesus turned water into wine.

The Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres may now wish to end this war. But the Hizbollah are not likely to let him. Israel is back in the Lebanese quagmire. Nor will the Arab world forget yesterday'a terrible scenes.

The blood of all the refugees ran quite literally in streams from the shell-smashed UN compound restaurant in which the Shiite Muslims from the hill villages of southern Lebanon - who had heeded Israel's order to leave their homes - had pathetically sought shelter. Fijian and French soldiers heaved another group of dead - they lay with their arms tightly wrapped around each other - into blankets.

A French UN trooper muttered oaths to himself as he opened a bag in which he was dropping feet, fingers, pieces of people's arms. And as we walked through this obscenity, a swarm of people burst into the compound. They had driven in wild convoys down from Tyre and began to pull the blankets off the mutilated corpses of their mothers and sons and daughters and to shriek "Allahu Akbar" (God is Great") and to threaten the UN troops.

We had suddenly become not UN troops and journalists but Westerners, Israel's allies, an object of hatred and venom. One bearded man with fierce eyes stared at us, his face dark with fury. "You are Americans", he screamed at us. "Americans are dogs. You did this. Americans are dogs."

President Bill Clinton has allied himself with Israel in its war against "terrorism" and the Lebanese, in their grief, had not forgotten this. Israel's official expression of sorrow was rubbing salt in their wounds. "I would like to be made into a bomb and blow myself up amid the Israelis", one old man said.

As for the Hizbollah, which has repeatedly promised that Israelis will pay for their killing of Lebanese civilians, its revenge cannot be long in coming. Operation Grapes of Wrath may then turn out then to be all too aptly named.

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/robert_fisk_qana.html
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 03:28 am
I posted Robert Fisk's report as I feel it is an indication of the way this mess is heading - towards revenge. How long can we expect these people to take this ****?

One point
This whole thing started (supposedly) because an Israeli soldier was kidnapped. (Unbelieveable that people are arguing about which side of the fecking border he was taken)
I think those of you who see that action as "terrorism" have to ask yourself an important question. How does the kidnapping of one "Soldier" weigh up against the kidnapping of hundreds of civilians?
And if you think it's okay to kill, displace, and traumatise a nation in retaliation, surely you should consider that your evaluation of the situation must be founded on racism.
The IRA blew up pubs in my town - and killed English kids on the street - they even tried to blow up the Prime Minister...
Do you believe we should have destroyed their country for it? Bombed Ireland. Killed their children?
Even Thatcher wouldn't have given that order.

What makes a Muslim's life less valuable than a Jews? Or an Irishman's?
In your opinion?

The truth is that the suffering of Israel's neighbours has been ignored, by us all, for too long. The western world is to blame for the deaths of those children in Lebanon- because we chose to turn a blind eye years ago to the suffering of the Palestinians.
Worse, it was US bombs that murdered those kids and every democratic country in the world stood and watched.
We are the creators of Israeli terrorism, and we are in the dark.


Take an Israeli soldier's word for it:

Look who's been kidnapped!
Arik Diamant IDF reservist

It's the wee hours of the morning, still dark outside. A guerrilla force comes out of nowhere to kidnap a soldier. After hours of careful movement, the force reaches its target, and the ambush is on! In seconds, the soldier finds himself looking down the barrel of a rifle.

A smash in the face with the butt of the gun and the soldier falls to the ground, bleeding. The kidnappers pick him up, quickly tie his hands and blindfold him, and disappear into the night.

This might be the end of the kidnapping, but the nightmare has just begun. The soldier's mother collapses, his father prays. His commanding officers promise to do everything they can to get him back, his comrades swear revenge. An entire nation is up-in-arms, writing in pain and worry.

Nobody knows how the soldier is: Is he hurt? Do his captors give him even a minimum of human decency, or are they torturing him to death by trampling his honor? The worst sort of suffering is not knowing. Will he come home? And if so, when? And in what condition? Can anyone remain apathetic in the light of such drama?

Israeli terror

This description, you'll be surprised to know, has nothing to do with the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit. It is the story of an arrest I carried out as an IDF soldier, in the Nablus casbah, about 10 years ago. The "soldier" was a 17-year-old boy, and we kidnapped him because he knew "someone" who had done "something."

We brought him tied up, with a burlap sac over his head, to a Shin Bet interrogation center known as "Scream Hill" (at the time we thought it was funny). There, the prisoner was beaten, violently shaken and sleep deprived for weeks or months. Who knows.

No one wrote about it in the paper. European diplomats were not called to help him. After all, there was nothing out of the ordinary about the kidnapping of this Palestinian kid. Over the 40 years of occupation we have kidnapped thousands of people, exactly like Gilad Shalit was captured: Threatened by a gun, beaten mercilessly, with no judge or jury, or witnesses, and without providing the family with any information about the captive.

When the Palestinians do this, we call it "terror." When we do it, we work overtime to whitewash the atrocity.

Suspects?

Some people will say: The IDF doesn't "just" kidnap. These people are "suspects." There is no more perverse lie than this. In all the years I served, I reached one simple conclusion: What makes a "suspect"? Who, exactly suspects him, and of what?

Who has the right to sentence a 17-year-old to kidnapping, torture and possible death? A 26-year-old Shin Bet interrogator? A 46-year-old one? Do these people have any higher education, apart from the ability to interrogate? What are his considerations? If all these "suspects" are so guilty, why not bring them to trial?

Anyone who believes that despite the lack of transparency, the IDF and Shin Bet to their best to minimize violations of human rights is naïve, if not brainwashed. One need only read the testimonies of soldiers who have carried out administrative detentions to be convinced of the depth of the immorality of our actions in the territories.

To this very day, there are hundreds of prisoners rotting in Shin Bet prisons and dungeons, people who have never been -and never will be - tried. And Israelis are silently resolved to this phenomenon.

Israeli responsibility

The day Gilad Shalit was kidnapped I rode in a taxi. The driver told me we must go into Gaza, start shooting people one-by-one, until someone breaks and returns the hostage. It isn't clear that such an operation would bring Gilad back alive.

Instead of getting dragged into terrorist responses, as Palestinian society has done, we should release some of the soldiers and civilians we have kidnapped. This is appropriate, right, and could bring about an air of reconciliation in the territories.

Hell, if this is what will bring Gilad home safe-and-sound, we have a responsibility to him to do it.

Arik Diamant is an IDF reservist and the head of the Courage to Refuse organization

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3271505,00.html
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 03:32 am
When the Palestinians do this, we call it "terror." When we do it, we work overtime to whitewash the atrocity.


Arik Diamant IDF reservist
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 03:45 am
McGentrix said (On a 'disappeared' thread - Gifts to the Lebanese Children -)
"Give me a break. War sucks, but pictures of dead babies is not going to stop it. "

I believe McGentrix is wrong. Ask any historian and he'll tell you that wars are ended through pressure of public opinion.

This picture did help end the Vietnam war:
http://www.p10k.net/Images/Vietnam_girl_napalm.jpg
Along with a few facts:
58,000 dead Americans
3-4 million murdered Asians
More bombs dropped than all of World War II

*****************************************************************
"Fight Terrorism"
by Ken O'Keefe

· terrorism, n. The use or threat of violence to intimidate or cause panic, esp. as a means of affecting political conduct.
Black's Law Dictionary

The logic of the so-called "War on Terror" as presented by our so-called "leaders" and "experts" is one of history's greatest insults to the collective intelligence of humanity. Simply put, some of us in the west are so thoroughly indoctrinated (I know this well as an ex-US Marine) that we have allowed this farcical War on Terror (which is nothing less then global state sponsored terrorism on a grand scale) to be carried out as if it might actually make our world a safer place. It ignores the root cause of terrorism which is largely found in the oppression of people and the denial of Inherent Human Rights. When Sharon, Blair, Bush and most of the rest of the west tell us it is their "duty" to fight this farcical war they insult us and our intelligence.

We in the west, especially in the United States, have absolutely no right to point the finger at any group of people and call them "terrorists." First we must point the finger right back at ourselves and acknowledge our democratically representational state sponsored terrorism. The truth is that our terrorism makes individual and group terrorism pale in comparison. By denying this fact we make ourselves the biggest of dupes and hypocrites.
**************************************************

"Wealth and power tend to accrue to those who are ruthless, cunning, avaricious, self-seeking, lacking in sympathy and compassion, subservient to authority and willing to abandon principle for material gain, and so on."
Noam Chomsky

"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists." - George W. Bush - 20th September, 2001
www.p10k.net/fight_terrorism.htm

_____________________________________________________


From the Independent

The obscene score-card for death in this latest war now stands as follows: 508 Lebanese civilians, 46 Hizbollah guerrillas, 26 Lebanese soldiers, 36 Israeli soldiers and 19 Israeli civilians.

In other words, Hizbollah is killing more Israeli soldiers than civilians and the Israelis are killing far more Lebanese civilians than they are guerrillas. The Lebanese Red Cross has found 40 more civilian dead in the south of the country in the past two days, many of them with wounds suggesting they might have survived had medical help been available.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1211295.ece



Of the 615 people so far confirmed dead, Save The Children says that almost half are children. They make up one third of the 3,225 injured, and about 45 per cent of the nearly one million Lebanese refugees are under the age of 18, according to Unicef.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1211289.ece

*************************************************************
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 04:00 am
And Krauthammer, in today's column, portrays Olmert as an indecisive wimp not manly enough to REALLY prosecute a war.

Just how fukking insane are these people?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 07:35 am
Yes. He's disappointed that the US proxy is having such a bad time with the Iranian proxy.

Joe
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:02 am
The neocons' next war
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/08/03/mideast/print.html

The neocons' next war
By Sidney Blumenthal
Aug. 03, 2006

By secretly providing NSA intelligence to Israel and undermining the hapless Condi Rice, hardliners in the Bush administration are trying to widen the Middle East conflict to Iran and Syria, not stop it.

The National Security Agency is providing signal intelligence to Israel to monitor whether Syria and Iran are supplying new armaments to Hezbollah as it fires hundreds of missiles into northern Israel, according to a national security official with direct knowledge of the operation. President Bush has approved the secret program.

Inside the administration, neoconservatives on Vice President Dick Cheney's national security staff and Elliott Abrams, the neoconservative senior director for the Near East on the National Security Council, are prime movers behind sharing NSA intelligence with Israel, and they have discussed Syrian and Iranian supply activities as a potential pretext for Israeli bombing of both countries, the source privy to conversations about the program says. (Intelligence, including that gathered by the NSA, has been provided to Israel in the past for various purposes.) The neoconservatives are described as enthusiastic about the possibility of using NSA intelligence as a lever to widen the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and Israel and Hamas into a four-front war.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is said to have been "briefed" and to be "on board," but she is not a central actor in pushing the covert neoconservative scenario. Her "briefing" appears to be an aspect of an internal struggle to intimidate and marginalize her. Recently she has come under fire from prominent neoconservatives who oppose her support for diplomatic negotiations with Iran to prevent its development of nuclear weaponry.

Rice's diplomacy in the Middle East has erratically veered from initially calling on Israel for "restraint," to categorically opposing a cease-fire, to proposing terms for a cease-fire guaranteed to conflict with the European proposal, and thus to thwarting diplomacy, prolonging the time available for the Israeli offensive to achieve its stated aim of driving Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon. But the neocon scenario extends far beyond that objective to pushing Israel into a "cleansing war" with Syria and Iran, says the national security official, which somehow will redeem Bush's beleaguered policy in the entire region.

In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves a 1996 neocon manifesto against the Middle East peace process. Titled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," its half-dozen authors included neoconservatives highly influential with the Bush administration -- Richard Perle, first-term chairman of the Defense Policy Board; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense; and David Wurmser, Cheney's chief Middle East aide.

"A Clean Break" was written at the request of incoming Likud Party Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and intended to provide "a new set of ideas" for jettisoning the policies of assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. Instead of trading "land for peace," the neocons advocated tossing aside the Oslo agreements that established negotiations and demanding unconditional Palestinian acceptance of Likud's terms, "peace for peace." Rather than negotiations with Syria, they proposed "weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria." They also advanced a wild scenario to "redefine Iraq." Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain "control" of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them "wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria."

Netanyahu, at first, attempted to follow the "clean break" strategy, but under persistent pressure from the Clinton administration he felt compelled to enter into U.S.-led negotiations with the Palestinians. In the 1998 Wye River accords, concluded through the personal involvement of President Clinton and a dying King Hussein, the Palestinians agreed to acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel and Netanyahu agreed to withdraw from a portion of the occupied West Bank. Further negotiations, conducted by his successor Ehud Barak, that nearly settled the conflict ended in dramatic failure, but potentially set the stage for new ones.

At his first National Security Council meeting, President George W. Bush stunned his first secretary of state, Colin Powell, by rejecting any effort to revive the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. When Powell warned that "the consequences of that could be dire, especially for the Palestinians," Bush snapped, "Sometimes a show for force by one side can really clarify things." He was making a "clean break" not only with his immediate predecessor but also with the policies of his father.

In the current Middle East crisis, once again, the elder Bush's wise men have stepped forward to offer unsolicited and unheeded advice. (In private they are scathing.) Edward Djerejian, a former ambassador to Israel and Syria and now the director of the James Baker Institute at Rice University, urged on July 23, on CNN, negotiations with Syria and Iran. "I come from the school of diplomacy that you negotiate conflict resolution and peace with your enemies and adversaries, not with your friends," he said. "We've done it in the past, we can do it again."

Charles Freeman, the elder Bush's ambassador to Saudi Arabia, remarked, "The irony now is that the most likely candidate to back Hezbollah in the long term is no longer Iran but the Arab Shiite tyranny of the majority we have installed in Baghdad." Indeed, when Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki came to Washington in the last week of July he preceded his visit with harsh statements against Israel. And in a closed meeting with U.S. senators, when asked to offer criticism of Hezbollah, he steadfastly refused.

Richard Haass, the Middle East advisor on the elder Bush's National Security Council and President Bush's first-term State Department policy planning director, and now president of the Council on Foreign Relations, openly scoffed at Bush's Middle East policy in an interview on July 30 in the Washington Post: "The arrows are all pointing in the wrong direction. The biggest danger in the short run is it just increases frustration and alienation from the United States in the Arab world. Not just the Arab world, but in Europe and around the world. People will get a daily drumbeat of suffering in Lebanon and this will just drive up anti-Americanism to new heights." When asked about the president's optimism, he replied, "An opportunity? Lord, spare me. I don't laugh a lot. That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. If this is an opportunity, what's Iraq? A once-in-a-lifetime chance?"

The same day that Haass' comments appeared Brent Scowcroft, the elder Bush's national security advisor and still his close friend, published an Op-Ed in the Washington Post written more or less as an open letter to his erstwhile and errant protégé Condoleezza Rice. Undoubtedly, Scowcroft reflects the views of the former President Bush. Adopting the tone of an instructor to a stubborn pupil, Scowcroft detailed a plan for an immediate end to the Israel-Hezbollah conflict and for restarting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, "the source of the problem." His program is a last attempt to turn the president back to the ways of his father. If the elder Bush and his team were in power and following the Scowcroft plan, a cease-fire would have been declared. But Scowcroft's plan resembles that of the Europeans, already rejected by the Bush administration, and Rice is the one offering a counterproposal that has put diplomacy into a stall.

Despite Rice's shunning of the advice of the Bush I sages, the neoconservatives have made her a convenient target in their effort to undermine all diplomatic initiatives. "Dump Condi," read the headline in the right-wing Insight Magazine on July 25. "Conservative national security allies of President Bush are in revolt against Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, saying that she is incompetent and has reversed the administration's national security and foreign policy agenda," the article reported. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a member of the Defense Policy Board, was quoted: "We are sending signals today that no matter how much you provoke us, no matter how viciously you describe things in public, no matter how many things you're doing with missiles and nuclear weapons, the most you'll get out of us is talk."

A month earlier, Perle, in a June 25 Op-Ed in the Washington Post, revived an old trope from the height of the Cold War, accusing those who propose diplomacy of being like Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister who tried to appease Hitler. "Condoleezza Rice," wrote Perle, "has moved from the White House to Foggy Bottom, a mere mile or so away. What matters is not that she is further removed from the Oval Office; Rice's influence on the president is undiminished. It is, rather, that she is now in the midst of and increasingly represents a diplomatic establishment that is driven to accommodate its allies even when (or, it seems, especially when) such allies counsel the appeasement of our adversaries."

Rice, agent of the nefarious State Department, is supposedly the enemy within. "We are in the early stages of World War III," Gingrich told Insight. "Our bureaucracies are not responding fast enough. We don't have the right attitude."

Confused, ineffectual and incapable of filling her office with power, Rice has become the voodoo doll that Powell was in the first term. Even her feeble and counterproductive gestures toward diplomacy leave her open to the harshest attacks from neoconservatives. Scowcroft and the Bush I team are simply ignored. The sustained assault on Rice is a means to an end -- restoring the ascendancy of neoconservatism.

Bush's rejection of and reluctance to embrace the peace process concluded with the victory of Hamas in the Palestinian elections. This failure was followed by a refusal to engage Hamas, potentially splitting its new governmental ministers from its more radical leadership in Damascus. Predictably, the most radical elements of Hamas found a way to lash out. And Hezbollah seized the moment by staging its own provocation.

Having failed in the Middle East, the administration is attempting to salvage its credibility by equating Israel's predicament with the U.S. quagmire in Iraq. Neoconservatives, for their part, see the latest risk to Israel's national security as a chance to scuttle U.S. negotiations with Iran, perhaps the last opportunity to realize the fantasies of "A Clean Break."

By using NSA intelligence to set an invisible tripwire, the Bush administration is laying the condition for regional conflagration with untold consequences -- from Pakistan to Afghanistan, from Iraq to Israel. Secretly devising a scheme that might thrust Israel into a ring of fire cannot be construed as a blunder. It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

-- By Sidney Blumenthal
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 08:54 am
BBB
Sydney Blumenthal's article above explains the real reason for Bush's moves against a UN cease fire in Lebanon and Israel.

I wonder how long it will take Poppy Bush to come out publicly against his idiot son's foreign policy instead of having his surrogates do it for him?

BBB
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2006 02:38 pm
ENDYMION wrote:
McGentrix said (On a 'disappeared' thread - Gifts to the Lebanese Children -)
"Give me a break. War sucks, but pictures of dead babies is not going to stop it. "

I believe McGentrix is wrong. Ask any historian and he'll tell you that wars are ended through pressure of public opinion.

This picture did help end the Vietnam war:
http://www.p10k.net/Images/Vietnam_girl_napalm.jpg
Along with a few facts:
58,000 dead Americans
3-4 million murdered Asians
More bombs dropped than all of World War II

*****************************************************************
"Fight Terrorism"
by Ken O'Keefe

· terrorism, n. The use or threat of violence to intimidate or cause panic, esp. as a means of affecting political conduct.
Black's Law Dictionary

The logic of the so-called "War on Terror" as presented by our so-called "leaders" and "experts" is one of history's greatest insults to the collective intelligence of humanity. Simply put, some of us in the west are so thoroughly indoctrinated (I know this well as an ex-US Marine) that we have allowed this farcical War on Terror (which is nothing less then global state sponsored terrorism on a grand scale) to be carried out as if it might actually make our world a safer place. It ignores the root cause of terrorism which is largely found in the oppression of people and the denial of Inherent Human Rights. When Sharon, Blair, Bush and most of the rest of the west tell us it is their "duty" to fight this farcical war they insult us and our intelligence.

We in the west, especially in the United States, have absolutely no right to point the finger at any group of people and call them "terrorists." First we must point the finger right back at ourselves and acknowledge our democratically representational state sponsored terrorism. The truth is that our terrorism makes individual and group terrorism pale in comparison. By denying this fact we make ourselves the biggest of dupes and hypocrites.
**************************************************

"Wealth and power tend to accrue to those who are ruthless, cunning, avaricious, self-seeking, lacking in sympathy and compassion, subservient to authority and willing to abandon principle for material gain, and so on."
Noam Chomsky

"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists." - George W. Bush - 20th September, 2001
www.p10k.net/fight_terrorism.htm

_____________________________________________________


From the Independent

The obscene score-card for death in this latest war now stands as follows: 508 Lebanese civilians, 46 Hizbollah guerrillas, 26 Lebanese soldiers, 36 Israeli soldiers and 19 Israeli civilians.

In other words, Hizbollah is killing more Israeli soldiers than civilians and the Israelis are killing far more Lebanese civilians than they are guerrillas. The Lebanese Red Cross has found 40 more civilian dead in the south of the country in the past two days, many of them with wounds suggesting they might have survived had medical help been available.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1211295.ece



Of the 615 people so far confirmed dead, Save The Children says that almost half are children. They make up one third of the 3,225 injured, and about 45 per cent of the nearly one million Lebanese refugees are under the age of 18, according to Unicef.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1211289.ece

*************************************************************


EXCELLENT POST. TOO BAD MORE AMERICANS ARE NOT AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS YOU. 'PATRIOTISM IS THE LAST REFUGE OF THE SCOUNDREL'. MARK TWAIN.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 09:19 am
U.S. Press Can Learn from Israeli Press
U.S. Press Can Learn from Israeli Press
By Suzanne Rosenberg
E & P
August 04, 2006

Why Israeli war policy gains such strong support in the American media --while drawing healthy skepticism and criticism from the press at home, even as the rockets fall.

The American press has been reluctant to criticize Israel's role in the economic collapse and civilian humanitarian disaster in Lebanon resulting from the latest border conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. A possible explanation for this: Israel is viewed as an ally of the United States, regardless of one's political orientation. But this conflict, as with most in the Middle East, also comes with some confusing variables.

One is that we are used to seeing Israel in the role of the underdog. Although she definitely has the greater military force, she has been on the receiving end of sporadic attacks aimed at civilian targets during the last six years which have transgressed United Nations resolution #1559, which in this case is a resolution Israel wants upheld.

Secondly, perhaps in this country's subconscious is the guilty knowledge that having ignored the Arab-Israeli crisis, by taking our eye off the ball during the last six years, the United States has indirectly helped to spur on this latest military situation. And finally, this latest military conflagration only points up the difficulty of judging proportionality -- and just what a painful and puzzling equation it is. Israel is fighting a war against a legitimate member of the Lebanese government and yet it is not fighting a war against Lebanon. Hezbollah is a non-state actor, which has a larger military and more force and funding available to it than the Lebanese military.

Still another problem exists in light of the fact that Hamas and Hezbollah, not to mention Al Qaeda and other "terror" groups, often utilize civilian abodes to both hide and fire their extremely mobile rocket weaponry. These are moral and ethical questions, which will continue to plague all disputes, which are fought between legitimate governments and non-state actors.

Although the American and the Jewish press in the U.S. have, for the most part, failed to be critical of Israel during the most recent actions, it is important to point out that in the Israeli press and in Israeli society this is not the case at all. In Israel there has been vigorous discussion and debate in the press and on the streets regarding the government's actions since the conflict began. Unfortunately, that too has not been pointed out in the American press, left or right.

The war and its impact on hundreds of thousands, the call up of the civilian army, the fact that more than one million people from the north of the country have been evacuated from their homes and are refugees in the south, and the standstill to which the economy has arrived, are all byproducts of the war at home for Israel. In addition, Israeli civilians are being killed by the untargeted rocket attacks, and of course military casualties are being taken as well. In spite or perhaps because of all of the above, the latest polls find the Israeli public still overwhelmingly supporting the government. This is a result of plain old-fashioned citizen fear which is overwhelming concerns about longterm "blowback" or other political or tactical considerations.

In Tel Aviv, on the third day of the fighting a peace rally with over 5000 people was held. Op-eds and editorial opinions which have been critical of the government's actions since the conflict began have been appearing frequently in all the Israeli newspapers regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. Akiva Eldar, a columnist and writer for Ha'aretz, has been particularly critical of this Israeli government for falling into a trap in responding to the Hezbollah action crossing the blue line into Israel which began this latest conflict. His criticism is particularly pointed in that he states that Israeli intelligence had information which indicated that the Iranian Hezbollah axis was baiting Israel in an attempt to take the attention away from international focus on Iran's nuclear ambitions during the G8 meeting.

Yossi Sarid, another columnist for Ha'aretz, has also been critical of any sort of foray into Lebanon given the history of Israel's past activities in the country. Sarid in particular points out the disastrous public relations backlash from which Israel is likely to suffer as a result of the extent of the country's military actions at this time.

These are only two of many pieces which make up a very lively and vigorous internal domestic debate within Israel about their own country's military preparedness and military actions in Lebanon. Increasingly a moral element of doubt has crept in to the dialogue, especially given the collateral civilian damage of the fighting as well as the fact that the military and political goals of the conflict are beginning to diverge.

The pages of Ha'aretz today continue to reflect the intensity of domestic political disagreements regarding Israeli policies during the Lebanese Campaign. A very public debate is reported extensively in the newspaper about the efficacy of reaching the Litani River before a ceasefire. Also, the head of the ultra-orthodox Lithuanian Jewish community and prominent leader of the Israeli religious party Degel HaTora publicly broke with the government this week and called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. A columnist, Doron Rosenblum praised Ariel Sharon's notion of "restraint is strength," and condemned current leaders for "the excessive ease - lightheartedness, really - with which they ignited the flames of a major war."

But regardless of one's opinion about Israel's actions, the American press can learn from the puzzling fact that Israel's press, which is in the middle of the muddle, appears to be exercising its rights of self-criticism regarding its own country's actions. This is not surprising when one notes that an openly skeptical press is critical to keeping a public dialogue, and therefore a functioning democracy, going -- something which the U.S. wasn't treated to very often during the period prior to, or in the early years, of our own ongoing military adventures in Iraq, and now in regards to the Israel/Hezbollah conflict.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzanne Rosenberg ([email protected]) is a political scientist and politics instructor at Marymount College of Fordham University. Her daughter is presently in Israel and a close firend's family has evacuated from Beirut to the Lebanese countryside.
0 Replies
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:19 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVBIzu4YvnE
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 04:32 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:


Great post, Finn. True as true gets. Rewarding bad behavior encourages bad behavior. Still don't have the time to get into it with you about my crazy(?) ideas... but I think I will soon.


Still the hypocrisy, eh Bill? Mr Lowry has only pointed out a truism. If the tables were turned and the USA and Israel had virtually no military power, we would see equally dirty tactics.

Let's make this fair. Give the same military hardware to the Lebanese that you give to Israel. It's just such a chickenshit attitude on your part. [not to mention Finn's]

You don't give a flying f**k how many people are killed as long as they're on this "other side", as long as they're the latest boogeyman.

Why, why oh why oh why does this childish mentality persist among so many Americans?

Stop your running, Bill; cut the deep denial. Address those issues wherein the USA has been complicit in international terrorism

Quote:
Terrorism - defined by the FBI:

"... the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives".


and war crimes. Demand that those responsible for tarnishing the ideals of the USA are held to account.

What makes you seem even more hypocritical than the average right wing poster is that you often post recounting your man of courage and right exploits. These "I'm a good and just man" comments simply don't square with your attitude to others in the world. That's hypocrisy!
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Aug, 2006 11:25 pm
JTT wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:


Great post, Finn. True as true gets. Rewarding bad behavior encourages bad behavior. Still don't have the time to get into it with you about my crazy(?) ideas... but I think I will soon.


Still the hypocrisy, eh Bill? Mr Lowry has only pointed out a truism. If the tables were turned and the USA and Israel had virtually no military power, we would see equally dirty tactics.

Let's make this fair. Give the same military hardware to the Lebanese that you give to Israel. It's just such a chickenshit attitude on your part. [not to mention Finn's]

You don't give a flying f**k how many people are killed as long as they're on this "other side", as long as they're the latest boogeyman.

Why, why oh why oh why does this childish mentality persist among so many Americans?

Stop your running, Bill; cut the deep denial. Address those issues wherein the USA has been complicit in international terrorism

Quote:
Terrorism - defined by the FBI:

"... the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives".


and war crimes. Demand that those responsible for tarnishing the ideals of the USA are held to account.

What makes you seem even more hypocritical than the average right wing poster is that you often post recounting your man of courage and right exploits. These "I'm a good and just man" comments simply don't square with your attitude to others in the world. That's hypocrisy!


Good post JTT.

Well what do you say, Cheesie and Finn? Can't answer that one, I see.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 05:45 am
pachelbel wrote:
How many people know about the Irish Holocaust caused by the Brits?
If you are refering to the Irish potato famine, that was caused by phytophthora infestans. I regard you as one of the more thoughtful posters pachelbel, but I cant let "the Irish Holocaust caused by the Brits" to pass without comment. There was no attempted genocide. If there was do you think the British would chose as their method of slaughter to arrange for the Irish to be totally dependent on potatos, then deliberately introduce potato blight? You should be more careful bandying around the term Holocaust. If the Irish are holocaust victims then so too are North American Indians.
0 Replies
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 10:13 pm
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/46227/George_Galloway_PWNING_Sky_News.html
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 12:17 am
Irish Holocaust
Oh come on! You cannot be that ignorant! Do a google search. There are countless sites called IRISH HOLOCAUST.

The word 'holocaust' hasn't been bought by the Jews yet, has it? Do they have the corner on the market for that word? The word 'holocaust' was translated in 1526 and comes via Old French and Latin & Greek: holokauston. The Jews didn't create it, just as they don't create anything except wars. I believe it can be used to describe what the English did to the Irish very well.

Holocaust can also be used to describe what was done to North American Indians and countless people down through history. I do not see how you could possibly deny it.

There was no attempted genocide? Are you delusional? What do you call systematic starvation? What do you call laws that made it illegal for an Irishman to eat his own grain grown on his own land? Or slaughter cattle on his land? Couldn't do that: it was for the Englishman's table only.

The Irish Holocaust; 3 million die:

The English simply wanted the Irish to leave Ireland so that they could populate Ireland with English gentry. That is simply what happened. You have a different version? I'd love to hear it.

The indifference of the British government during the Famine is explained, and I quote from Sir Charles Trevelyan, had of the Treasury in 1848, "the cure had been applied by the direct stroke of an all-wise Providence in a manner as unexpected and is likely to be effectual'. Two years later, after perhaps a MILLION people had died, including babies, women, and children, who died with grass in their mouths, he wrote, 'The matter is awfully serious, but we are in the hands of Providence, we can only await the result'. Sir Charles Wood replied to an Irish landlord who had written to inform him of what was actually happening in Ireland, 'I am not at all appalled by your tenantry going. That seems to me a necessary part of the process....' referring to the coffin ships that the Irish emigrated in. Trevelyn further declares in 1846, 'the great evil which we have to contend is not the evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people'.

Funny, he seems to be describing the English personality. I see no pity here for the millions of people that the English starved out of their own homes. The English were the overfed, snobby & inept fools who kicked out the Irish, then discovered they had no one to 'mind the garden'.

There was no capital investment in agriculture, no reclamation of land, and no reform of tenancies. Instead, English landlords who were responsible for the rates of their tenants holdings were able to continue to evict tenants as a way of reducing their bill (in 1850 alone, 104,000 people were evicted) and merchants were able to export grain to England from Ireland and cattle without hindrance. One of the most remarkable facts about the famine period is that Ireland exported more food than it imported.
It was illegal for an Irish farmer to take the grain to use for himself, or to slaughter cattle to feed his family. That was to go to the English landlord and shipped to England. An Irishman could be hanged for stealing grain to feed his starving family.

I contend that the Irish Holocaust and subsequent Diaspora is no different from other ethnic cleansings that have taken place and are taking place now in the Middle East.

The English conquered Ireland with no thought to the previous thousands of years that the Irish had lived on their island with their own laws, such as the ancient Brehon laws that predate English law (look that one up for enlightenment).

The few Irish who were left and could barely walk were herded onto what is commonly known as 'coffin ships' and I'm sure you've heard that word before - because many Irish did not make it to America or Canada in the filthy holds.

Funny how what goes around comes around. Now Ireland has a higher per capita than England. They're just doing better financially than England. Don't fret though, I don't think the Irish will be asking for reparation for the things done to them by England. I won't even discuss Cromwell. You know what I'm talking about, don't you? Here is more for you to - --digest:

From Cork harbor on one day in 1847 2 the AJAX steamed for England with 1,514 firkins of butter, 102 casks of pork, 44 hogsheads of whiskey, 844 sacks of oats, 247 sacks of wheat, 106 bales of bacon, 13 casks of hams, 145 casks of porter, 12 sacks of fodder, 28 bales of feathers, 8 sacks of lard, 296 boxes of eggs, 30 head of cattle, 90 pigs, 220 lambs, 34 calves and 69 miscellaneous packages. On November 14, 1848 3, sailed, from Cork harbor alone: 147 bales of bacon, 120 casks and 135 barrels of pork, 5 casks of hams, 149 casks of miscellaneous provisions (foodstuff); 1,996 sacks & 950 barrels of oats; 300 bags of flour; 300 head of cattle; 239 sheep; 9,398 firkins of butter; 542 boxes of eggs. On July 28, 1848 4; a typical day's food shipments from only the following four ports: from Limerick: the ANN, JOHN GUISE and MESSENGER for London; the PELTON CLINTON for Liverpool; and the CITY OF LIMERICK, BRITISH QUEEN, and CAMBRIAN MAID for Glasgow. This one-day removal of Limerick's food was of 863 firkins of butter; 212 firkins, 1,198 casks and 200 kegs of lard, 87 casks of ham; 267 bales of bacon; 52 barrels of pork; 45 tons and 628 barrels of flour; 4,975 barrels of oats and 1,000 barrels of barley. From Kilrush: the ELLEN for Bristol; the CHARLES G. FRYER and MARY ELLIOTT for London. This one-day removal was of 550 tons of County Clare's oats and 15 tons of its barley. From Tralee: the JOHN ST. BARBE, CLAUDIA and QUEEN for London; the SPOKESMAN for Liverpool. This one-day removal was of 711 tons of Kerry's oats and 118 tons of its barley. From Galway: the MARY, VICTORIA, and DILIGENCE for London; the SWAN and UNION for Limerick (probably for transshipment to England). This one-day removal was of 60 sacks of Co. Galway's flour; 30 sacks and 292 tons of its oatmeal; 294 tons of its oats; and 140 tons of its miscellaneous provisions (foodstuffs). British soldiers forcibly removed it from its starving Limerick, Clare, Kerry and Galway producers.

In Belmullet, Co. Mayo the mission of 151 soldiers 5 of the 49th Regiment was to guard a few tons of meal from the hands of the starving; its population falling from 237 to 105 between 1841 and 1851. Belmullet also lost its source of fish in January, 1849, when Britain's Coast Guard arrested its fleet of enterprising fishermen ten miles at sea in the act of off-loading flour from a passing ship. They were sentenced to prison and their currachs were confiscated.

The Waterford Harbor British army commissariat officer wrote to British Treasury Chief Charles Trevelyan on April 24, 1846; "The barges leave Clonmel once a week for this place, with the export supplies under convoy which, last Tuesday, consisted of 2 guns, 50 cavalry, and 80 infantry escorting them on the banks of the Suir as far as Carrick." While its people starved, the Clonmel district exported annually, along with its other farm produce, approximately 60,000 pigs in the form of cured pork

There's our man Trevelyan again. No genocide here at all eh?? BS.
The Jews will have to move over. Some estimates put the Famine deaths to over 5.2 million. You English should be ashamed.

For further knowledge about the Irish, read "How the Irish Saved Civilization' by Thomas Cahill.
0 Replies
 
 

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