1
   

HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL WIDEN THE CONFLICT

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 12:37 pm
What Finn said <nods>
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 07:46 pm
So, here we are three years plus into our campaign to bring democracy to the Middle East. We started by launching a unilateral invasion of Iraq without the urging of a single nearby nation, you know, the ones who supposedly were threatened by Saddam. Did Kuwait think he was coming back?

Anyway, we have been doing our best in Iraq, we just keep having a lot of bad luck - 'rogue' members of our armed forces humiliating prisoners, acting without orders, of course - hourly IED's blowing up everything in our faces - and the day by day massacres of police recruits (sometime by their own members) have dampened expectations for this cakewalk to be wrapped up soon.

The real problem, as revealed this week, is that we have been much too much concerned with the streets of Bagdad and have not been paying enough attention to what has been happening in the surrounding countries.

We refused on principle to even speak with Syria and Iran. So now we have no one there as a contact in the present crisis or, in Iran's case, the nuclear program mess. We pissed off a lot of people in the UAE with the port security hoo-ha. The Saudis continue to play us for fools while they try not to get killed by their own homegrown radicals. Ditto the Egyptians, hence the lack of any progress on free elections there. Yemen...where's that again? Oh, where the most radical radicals are, that is, outside of the ungoverned areas between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

We have no influence over Israel. Think about that. We have no influence over our one client state in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, here on A2K, the tenth thread regarding Iraq has become a nightmare of statistical ramblings over how many deaths would occur in a particular month in the future. As if that matters.

High above, Intell-sats burble billions of data lines per minute and we can read all of them at the NSA and watch on live CNN as the ground around the Dead Sea begins to melt.

Joe(Yeah, you're doing a heckava job, Bushy, Condi, Donnie and Dick)Nation
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 07:50 pm
What Joe (you got it, boy) Nation said.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 07:58 pm
i'm not sure about Bushy, Condi, Donnie and Dick, but i believe Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe have it right

It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and
snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid.
Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world
serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs. Feed
it off an aux speak, grunt, no, strength, Ladder
start to clatter with fear fight down height. Wire
in a fire, representing seven games, a government
for hire and a combat site. Left of west and coming in
a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck. Team
by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped.
Look at that low playing! Fine, then. Uh oh,
overflow, population, common food, but it'll do. Save
yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs,
listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and
the revered and the right, right. You vitriolic,
patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty
psyched.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Six o'clock - TV hour. Don't get caught in foreign
towers. Slash and burn, return, listen to yourself
churn. Locking in, uniforming, book burning, blood
letting. Every motive escalate. Automotive incinerate.
Light a candle, light a votive. Step down, step down.
Watch your heel crush, crushed, uh-oh, this means no
fear cavalier. Renegade steer clear! A tournament,
tournament, a tournament of lies. Offer me solutions,
offer me alternatives and I decline.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

The other night I dreamt of knives, continental
drift divide. Mountains sit in a line, Leonard
Bernstein. Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester
Bangs. Birthday party, cheesecake, jelly bean, boom! You
symbiotic, patriotic, slam book neck, right? Right.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel
fine...fine...

(It's time I had some time alone)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:05 pm
There is no doubt that Iran bankrolls Hezbollah for as much as they think it has practical value. There can also be no doubt that Syria has Hezbollah as a client as well. Ironically, Syria originally invaded the Lebanon in the civil war thirty years ago to prop up the Maronite Christian militias, to prevent political meltdown in the Lebanon, and to preserve a govenment which had been friendly to Damascus. Their eventual support of Hezbollah, despite the Shi'ite character of the organization, was in order to continue to have a major player on-side with them in the government of the Lebanon. There is not love lost between Shi'ite and Sunni, and therefore between Syria and Iran--but the Muslims close ranks when there is an outside force.

The Maronites, with a distinct facist background, were completely destroyed as a political force in that civil war. They have had to recreate themselves, and Hezbollah emerged in 1982 as the only political force in the Lebanon prepared to defy Israel and not to truckle to the PLO. To suggest that the Lebanon as a whole is responsible for what Hezbollah does, though, simply because they are a part of the government is naive. This is no different than saying that the United States as a whole is always responsible for the consequences of the ideological policies of any given political party. (Unfortunately, analogies from political situations in other nations don't work very well, as we don't have armed militias contending for control of "turf" as is the case in the Lebanon--and as may one day be the case in Iraq.) Had Lebanese forces been responsible for the attack and the kidnapping, the point may have been valid. However, the Hezbollah militia are a separate entity, and a force at least as powerful (if not more so) than the Lebanese military and security forces which answer to the government. Since the withdrawal of Syrian forces, Hezbollah has been left as the most potent military force in the Lebanon by default.

I see this as likely to be a seriously destabilizing factor in the middle east. I haven't the least doubt that the Israelis are well aware of the dynamics in the Lebanon, and have willfully chosen to blame the national government for the actions of Hezbollah militia in order to authorize a misguieded attempt to destroy Hezbollah. I consider it misguided for a variety of reasons, and the two most prominent are these: the attempt during the civil war to destroy the PLO failed; and, the largest Muslim faction in the Lebanon are Shi'ites, and they identify Hezbollah as their political organ, even if they don't agree with extreme militants of Hebollah. The Shi'ites are prominent in the middle east in three places, southern Iraq, Iran and the Lebanon. This action of the Israelis is dubious as a prescription for the destruction of Hezbollah, and in fact may only increase their support in the Lebanon.

I also think the attempt to destroy Hamas by attacking their popular base in Gaza may well fail for the same reason. This militarist solution has failed Isreal in the past in dealing with the PLO and other Palestinian organizations before the establishment of the Palestinian Authority--and it appears that they did not learn from those examples. Meanwhile, it serious threatens the stability of a region which always lived balanced on the point of a bayonet.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 11:29 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
So, here we are three years plus into our campaign to bring democracy to the Middle East. We started by launching a unilateral invasion of Iraq without the urging of a single nearby nation, you know, the ones who supposedly were threatened by Saddam. Did Kuwait think he was coming back?

Anyway, we have been doing our best in Iraq, we just keep having a lot of bad luck - 'rogue' members of our armed forces humiliating prisoners, acting without orders, of course - hourly IED's blowing up everything in our faces - and the day by day massacres of police recruits (sometime by their own members) have dampened expectations for this cakewalk to be wrapped up soon.

This not a thread on the war in Iraq. While the fact of that war must be included in the overall consideration of the current state of affairs between Israel and Lebanon, arguments about why and how we went to war in Iraq are better left to other threads.

The real problem, as revealed this week, is that we have been much too much concerned with the streets of Bagdad and have not been paying enough attention to what has been happening in the surrounding countries.

Of course had the Administration been focused on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict it would have been open to criticism (from similar sources) for not focusing on the streets of Baghdad. In any case it seems to me that the Administration was quite properly focused on Lebanon when it participated in a UN based effort to pressure Syria to withdraw from that country. Since then the US has supported the Lebanese government while urging it to disband and disarm Hezbollah. What additional attention do you think Lebanon required?

We refused on principle to even speak with Syria and Iran. So now we have no one there as a contact in the present crisis or, in Iran's case, the nuclear program mess. We pissed off a lot of people in the UAE with the port security hoo-ha. The Saudis continue to play us for fools while they try not to get killed by their own homegrown radicals. Ditto the Egyptians, hence the lack of any progress on free elections there. Yemen...where's that again? Oh, where the most radical radicals are, that is, outside of the ungoverned areas between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The status of our current relationships with Syria and Iran is not due to pique. There are excellent and valid reasons not to have the sort of diplomatic relations with these two states that we have with so many others: they support terrorists who threaten us and our allies and they consistently work against our interests. While we may not have direct talks with the Iranian and Syrian governments, there are communication channels.

I'm not sure what your litany of dire situations in the region is intended to convey. If it is to suggest that the region is a mess, then I don't think it was really necessary. I doubt anyone will argue with you on that point. If it was someone intended to be a litany of Bush Administration or US foreign policy failures then I would suggest that you have a greater faith in the power of this country to influence external affairs than any card carrying neo-con. The US has been struggling with problems in the Middle East for decades and no Adminsitration (neither Republican, nor Democrat) has been able to come close to solving them. In fact, it can be argued that regardless of what you might think of this Administration's Middle Eastern policy it is the only one in 40 years that is attempting something other than the tried, tested and failed polcies of the past.


We have no influence over Israel. Think about that. We have no influence over our one client state in the Middle East.

This is, on its face, a patently erroneous argument.

Meanwhile, here on A2K, the tenth thread regarding Iraq has become a nightmare of statistical ramblings over how many deaths would occur in a particular month in the future. As if that matters.

High above, Intell-sats burble billions of data lines per minute and we can read all of them at the NSA and watch on live CNN as the ground around the Dead Sea begins to melt.

Joe(Yeah, you're doing a heckava job, Bushy, Condi, Donnie and Dick)Nation
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 12:32 am
Setanta wrote:
There is no doubt that Iran bankrolls Hezbollah for as much as they think it has practical value. There can also be no doubt that Syria has Hezbollah as a client as well. Ironically, Syria originally invaded the Lebanon in the civil war thirty years ago to prop up the Maronite Christian militias, to prevent political meltdown in the Lebanon, and to preserve a govenment which had been friendly to Damascus. Their eventual support of Hezbollah, despite the Shi'ite character of the organization, was in order to continue to have a major player on-side with them in the government of the Lebanon. There is not love lost between Shi'ite and Sunni, and therefore between Syria and Iran--but the Muslims close ranks when there is an outside force.

The Maronites, with a distinct facist background, were completely destroyed as a political force in that civil war. They have had to recreate themselves, and Hezbollah emerged in 1982 as the only political force in the Lebanon prepared to defy Israel and not to truckle to the PLO. To suggest that the Lebanon as a whole is responsible for what Hezbollah does, though, simply because they are a part of the government is naive. This is no different than saying that the United States as a whole is always responsible for the consequences of the ideological policies of any given political party. (Unfortunately, analogies from political situations in other nations don't work very well, as we don't have armed militias contending for control of "turf" as is the case in the Lebanon--and as may one day be the case in Iraq.) Had Lebanese forces been responsible for the attack and the kidnapping, the point may have been valid. However, the Hezbollah militia are a separate entity, and a force at least as powerful (if not more so) than the Lebanese military and security forces which answer to the government. Since the withdrawal of Syrian forces, Hezbollah has been left as the most potent military force in the Lebanon by default.

I see this as likely to be a seriously destabilizing factor in the middle east. I haven't the least doubt that the Israelis are well aware of the dynamics in the Lebanon, and have willfully chosen to blame the national government for the actions of Hezbollah militia in order to authorize a misguieded attempt to destroy Hezbollah. I consider it misguided for a variety of reasons, and the two most prominent are these: the attempt during the civil war to destroy the PLO failed; and, the largest Muslim faction in the Lebanon are Shi'ites, and they identify Hezbollah as their political organ, even if they don't agree with extreme militants of Hebollah. The Shi'ites are prominent in the middle east in three places, southern Iraq, Iran and the Lebanon. This action of the Israelis is dubious as a prescription for the destruction of Hezbollah, and in fact may only increase their support in the Lebanon.

I also think the attempt to destroy Hamas by attacking their popular base in Gaza may well fail for the same reason. This militarist solution has failed Isreal in the past in dealing with the PLO and other Palestinian organizations before the establishment of the Palestinian Authority--and it appears that they did not learn from those examples. Meanwhile, it serious threatens the stability of a region which always lived balanced on the point of a bayonet.


It would be naive to believe the Lebanese government could disarm and disband Hezbollah with little effort or consequence if only they wanted to. I don't, at all, consider it naive hold the government of a sovereign state responsible for repeated attacks against a neighbor from within its borders.

We are not talking about shadowy terrorists who are on the run as much from the Lebanese authorities as they are from the Israelis. This was not the first time Hezbollah has attacked Israel from within the borders of Lebanon. Hezbollah is a recognized and established entity within Lebanon. Not only is it not on the lam, it has representation within the government.

To dismiss the issue of holding the Lebanese government responsible in this matter is to dismiss a very important point:

Unless one believes Israel should simply endure Hezbollah rocket attacks staged within the borders of Lebanon, then the extent to which the Lebanese government can be held responsible for activities within its borders will figure quite prominently in determining the appropriateness of Israel's response.

The government of a state clearly has responsibilities for the activities occurring within its borders. Should those activities represent an attack on neighboring countries the government has either explicitly or implicitly declared war, or is responsible for putting a stop to the attacks. The extent to which it is willing and able to halt the attacks will greatly influence the response of the nation under attack. If there was any reason to believe that the Lebanese government was willing to attempt to at least restrain Hezbollah, Israel would be required, at least by world opinion, to allow them the chance. Since the Lebanese government has shown no such inclination, what option does Israel have but to take the matter into its own hands?

Under this sort of situation, a government can only be said to not be responsible for the attacks if it is doing something to stop them. If it will not, then it is, for all intents and purposes culpable, and if it can not, it probably doesn't merit the designation of government.

Freeing the entity that is being called the Lebanese government from responsibility for these attacks but still granting it the status of the official government of a sovereign state unfairly restricts Israel's options and places it in a no-win situation:

The Lebanese Government is not about to sanction Israel's military response nor ask Israel to help it rid Lebanon of Hezbollah.

The Lebanese Government is unable (and possibly unwilling) to attempt to stop Hezbollah.

Given these two conditions, Israel's military actions cannot be considered defense against acts of war, but can be considered acts of war in themselves.

Within the context of world opinion this would seem to require Israel to either endure the attacks without reprisal or wait for the Lebanese government to grow strong enough to disband Hezbollah or ask another country provide them with the military support necessary to disband Hezbollah. The former isn't about to happen anytime soon and if Lebanon would ever have considered the latter, given their experience with Syria, it will be a long long time before they ever do again.

Thus the only two (theoretically) possible choices Israel has are endure the attacks or take action on their own. From a practical standpoint they have had only one choice.

I have no confidence at all that they will be able to eliminate the threat of Hezbollah with any sort of finality, and I have little doubt that by taking the only choice they have, the region will be further destabilized and peace that much farther away. Iran and Syria will have won this battle. It can be hoped that if nothing else, this crisis will make it that much more clear that Iran and Syria are our enemies, and not simply unfriendly nations with whom we only need to talk so we we can clear up any unfortunate misunderstanding and everything will be A-OK.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 04:15 am
Quote:
This not a thread on the war in Iraq. While the fact of that war must be included in the overall consideration of the current state of affairs between Israel and Lebanon, arguments about why and how we went to war in Iraq are better left to other threads.


Or better left unsaid entirely. You're right, that little tempest has not overly influenced Iran into flexing it's influence now that it's most irritating neighbor has been removed from power. Hezzbollah, don't you love all the spelling versions, obviously thought up the idea of it's own incursion into Israel completely on it's own. (BTW, that's Iran's knight sneaking down the left side of the board.)

Quote:
The US has been struggling with problems in the Middle East for decades and no Adminsitration (neither Republican, nor Democrat) has been able to come close to solving them. In fact, it can be argued that regardless of what you might think of this Administration's Middle Eastern policy it is the only one in 40 years that is attempting something other than the tried, tested and failed polcies of the past.


The only difference, thus far, has been fewer ships than Eisenhower and more troops than Reagan.

But again, you are right, what was it again? Oh yes. We have plenty of influence over Israel, they do seem to jump at our every suggestion, yet I am not to believe, at least to the extent of a card-carrying neo-con, that the US can influence conditions in the Middle East. Why would I think that is possible for the most powerful nation on earth? Silly me. I thought there might be actual discussions with the various parties rather than the untried tactic of shooting first and asking questions later.


Joe(Meanwhile, over a G-8, Bush has'em rolling in the aisles)Nation
and not in a good way.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 01:11 pm
Re: HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL WIDEN THE CONFLICT
Good analysis of the situation:

Click on the story "Red Alert: Getting Ready" at this Google search:

LINK
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 05:34 pm
Interesting, and nothing said about the possibility that this might be a swell time for Israel to whack Iran's nuclear sites.

Joe(oops, not till Tuesday)Nation
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 05:44 pm
BTW, this might be a swell time for Israel to whack Iran's nuclear sites.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 05:49 pm
Good grief.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 06:02 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Interesting, and nothing said about the possibility that this might be a swell time for Israel to whack Iran's nuclear sites.

Joe(oops, not till Tuesday)Nation

Was joking, osso. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 07:04 pm
It really might be a swell time for Israel to whack Iran's nuclear sites... if they were up to the task (I doubt they are). It doesn't seem right that Iran should walk away unscathed for their roll in this. Otherwise they will once again reap rewards, rather than punishment, for bad behavior.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 07:11 pm
Slightly OT, but what percentage of Lebanese do you think support Hezbollah? If they are represented in gov't, how is that so without some sort of majority?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 07:22 pm
princesspupule wrote:
Slightly OT, but what percentage of Lebanese do you think support Hezbollah? If they are represented in gov't, how is that so without some sort of majority?
No where near a majority. Hezbollah holds 14 seats in the 128-member Lebanese parliament. The problem is the majority seems content to tolerate them. If they don't feel strong enough to take them on (and frankly, I doubt the veracity of that argument) they should be seeking assistance to rid their nation of them. They've done neither and are therefore responsible for their actions.

Imagine a KKK outfit with seats in our congress, control of a state like Texas, and in the habit of crossing the Mexican Border for the purpose of kidnapping and murder. Would we not be held responsible (in the collective minds of the world) if we did nothing to combat these criminal acts?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 08:19 pm
I found this article very interesting.

Why Bush should go to Tel Aviv - and confront Iran
By William Kristol

Published: July 16 2006 17:38 | Last updated: July 16 2006 18:51

Why is this Arab-Israeli war different from all other Arab-Israeli wars? Because it's not an Arab-Israeli war. Most of Israel's traditional Arab enemies have checked out of the current conflict. The governments of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are, to say the least, indifferent to the fate of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestine Liberation Organization (Fatah) isn't a player. The prime mover behind the terrorist groups who have started this war is a non-Arab state, Iran, which wasn't involved in any of Israel's previous wars.

What's happening in the Middle East, then, isn't just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's happening is an Islamist-Israeli war. You might even say this is part of the Islamist war on the West--but is India part of the West? Better to say that what's under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States.


An Islamist-Israeli conflict may or may not be more dangerous than the old Arab-Israeli conflict. Secular Arab nationalism was, after all, also capable of posing an existential threat to Israel. And the Islamist threat to liberal democracy may or may not turn out to be as dangerous as the threats posed in the last century by secular forms of irrationalism (fascism) and illiberalism (communism). But it is a new and different threat. One needs to keep this in mind when trying to draw useful lessons from our successes, and failures, in dealing with the threats of the 20th century.


Here, however, is one lesson that does seem to hold: States matter. Regimes matter. Ideological movements become more dangerous when they become governing regimes of major nations. Communism became really dangerous when it seized control of Russia. National socialism became really dangerous when it seized control of Germany. Islamism became really dangerous when it seized control of Iran - which then became, as it has been for the last 27 years, the Islamic Republic of Iran.


No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah. No Islamic Republic of Iran, no one to prop up the Assad regime in Syria. No Iranian support for Syria (a secular government that has its own reasons for needing Iranian help and for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas), little state sponsorship of Hamas and Hezbollah. And no Shi'ite Iranian revolution, far less of an impetus for the Saudis to finance the export of the Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam as a competitor to Khomeini's claim for leadership of militant Islam - and thus no Taliban rule in Afghanistan, and perhaps no Hamas either.


It's of course true that Hamas - an arm of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood - is at odds ideologically with Shia Iran, and that Shia and Sunni seem inclined to dislike, even slaughter, each other elsewhere in the Middle East. But temporary alliances of convenience are no less dangerous because they are temporary. Tell the Poles of 1939, and the French of 1940, that they really had little to worry about because the Nazi-Soviet pact was bound to fall apart.


The war against radical Islamism is likely to be a long one. Radical Islamism isn't going away anytime soon. But it will make a big difference how strong the state sponsors, harbourers, and financiers of radical Islamism are. Thus, our focus should be less on Hamas and Hezbollah, and more on their paymasters and real commanders - Syria and Iran. And our focus should be not only on the regional war in the Middle East, but also on the global struggle against radical Islamism.


For while Syria and Iran are enemies of Israel, they are also enemies of the United States. We have done a poor job of standing up to them and weakening them. They are now testing us more boldly than one would have thought possible a few years ago. Weakness is provocative. We have been too weak, and have allowed ourselves to be perceived as weak.


The right response is renewed strength - in supporting the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran. For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions - and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.


But such a military strike would take a while to organize. In the meantime, perhaps President Bush can fly from the silly G8 summit in St. Petersburg - a summit that will most likely convey a message of moral confusion and political indecision - to Jerusalem, the capital of a nation that stands with us, and is willing to fight with us, against our common enemies. This is our war, too.


William Kristol is editor of The Weekly Standard; this article appears by arrangement with that publication
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 08:52 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I found this article very interesting.

Why Bush should go to Tel Aviv - and confront Iran
By William Kristol
I find it very interesting that you find it very interesting as we seldom agree on these things and that author's thoughts draw a near parallel to my own.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 09:04 pm
I found it interesting from more than one perspective. For one thing, it demonstrates how Bush, who has attempted to be strong, has put the USA in a position of weakness.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 09:22 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I found it interesting from more than one perspective. For one thing, it demonstrates how Bush, who has attempted to be strong, has put the USA in a position of weakness.
If you mean by attacking Iraq; I disagree. If you mean by letting Iran and North Korea misbehave with seeming impunity; I couldn't agree more. I would even agree that Iraq was useless if the struggle to free the oppressed ends there. As I have said all along; I consider Iraq to be the perfect starting point, no more.
0 Replies
 
 

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