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HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL WIDEN THE CONFLICT

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 01:30 pm
Are those figures related to the number of inhabitants or absolute?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 03:13 pm
Re: McG
Ticomaya wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
JTT wrote:
If there were, the USA would not be dead last among first world nations in real overseas aid. You know where the USA sits, OB? Dead last. Now that's real generosity. You know where the vast majority of USA "aid" goes. To supplying the world with a terrifying array of weaponry.


Care to back that little tidbit up?


Tis a fact. Based on percentage of GNP, the US comes in last.

BBB


The "blame America first" crowd is ever on the lookout for creative ways to make the US look bad. Sure, base your analysis on "percentage of GNP," and go ahead and ignore that most of the charitable giving in this country comes from private donations, not from Governmental aid, contrary to most other countries.
GNP percentage? As if that matters to anyone other than the finger pointers anyway. $1,000 is $1,000 regardless of the source or size of it. Every restaurant I know routinely donates to virtually every silent auction that asks for dough. I average over $10,000 per year per property in this regard and would expect that's an average output... and would guess it's at least matched, if not exceeded by grocery stores, banks, golf courses, bowling alleys and any number of retailers… and would further wager that none of these contributions make their way onto JTT's slanted statistical comparisons. Ah, but it feels so good to make America look bad. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 03:40 pm
I have read that most of American "overseas aid" never leaves Washington, being tied to conditions and deals favouring the donor.

Information here

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 09:13 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1830930,00.html

Criticises neo-con policies. Foreign policy of US misguided.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:11 am
Re: McG
Quote:
OCCOM BILL

The "blame America first" crowd is ever on the lookout for creative ways to make the US look bad. Sure, base your analysis on "percentage of GNP," and go ahead and ignore that most of the charitable giving in this country comes from private donations, not from Governmental aid, contrary to most other countries.

GNP percentage? As if that matters to anyone other than the finger pointers anyway. $1,000 is $1,000 regardless of the source or size of it. Every restaurant I know routinely donates to virtually every silent auction that asks for dough. I average over $10,000 per year per property in this regard and would expect that's an average output... and would guess it's at least matched, if not exceeded by grocery stores, banks, golf courses, bowling alleys and any number of retailers… and would further wager that none of these contributions make their way onto JTT's slanted statistical comparisons. Ah, but it feels so good to make America look bad. Rolling Eyes


Occom Bill, fair and open minded bloke. All you have to do to expose your charade is keep you blind cons talking. I provided NO statistics, Bill.

What is it with you? If you have this much trouble keeping such simple facts in order, it's no wonder you're so deluded on the bigger issues.

One more important point. Let's stop with these worn out cliches, Bill.

"The "blame America first" crowd is ..."

They only serve to make you look stupid, to illustrate that you're unwilling to actually address the issues head on. It's not blame America first, it's blame America for what they do wrong. It's what responsible adults do. Should this not extend to responsible countries?

It's blame America for their blatant hypocrisy. It's to expose the shell game that has gone on for far too long causing untold misery and death across the planet hidden under the guise of caring.

We can even have a thread to discuss what is great about America and there are many many things but you do both yourself and your country a huge disservice with your "disassembling", with your continued support for a leadership so vacuous, it boggles the mind.

But let's do look at some pointed FACTS.

Quote:

Commenting on the latest US pledge [of $10 billion], Julian Borger and Charlotte Denny of the Guardian (UK) say Washington is desperate to deflect attention in Monterrey from the size of its aid budget. But for more generous donors, says the story, Washington's conversion to the cause of effective aid spending is hard to swallow.


Quote:


Thus, status quo in world relations is maintained. Rich countries like the US continue to have a financial lever to dictate what good governance means and to pry open markets of developing countries for multinational corporations.


Quote:


"[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgeable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period. But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid. On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations.

As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'. ... Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share"

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:w-laVASHqMcJ:www.vexen.co.uk/USA/foreign_aid.html+USA+stingiest+country+in+the+world+jimmy+carter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1



Fifty percent of foreign aid spent on middle oncome countries. Boy, have you ever been duped, eh, cons Bill? What is it with you conservative Americans. Why is there such an aversion to fact finding and such a studied avoidance of the truth?

Quote:


Tied Aid:


"The most generous countries are also the ones that do not tend to tie aid to their own products and services. The stingiest countries also, almost spitefully and nastily, force countries to buy their own services and products with the aid they give; which reduces free trade and commerce and harms the countries economy, as well as being simply selfish and conceited. ...

The USA is the worst, and ties nearly 90% of its aid to developing countries. Italy is the second worst with 70%. The two worst countries for this obnoxious practice in aid-giving are also the two countries out of the most developed countries, who give least generously!"
"Which Countries Set the Best Examples? A Comparison of Global Aid", by Vexen Crabtree, 2005

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:w-laVASHqMcJ:www.vexen.co.uk/USA/foreign_aid.html+USA+stingiest+country+in+the+world+jimmy+carter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1



Quote:



Quote:


The difference with the USA appears to be that it is the single loudest self-congratulator. When it comes to war and aggression and other USA foreign policy issues, the USA is always heard to be boasting of how it is a beneficiary to much of the world. Yet, proportionally, all 21 of the other developed nations give more, and none of them used the "we are good because we are generous" argument that their policy was correct. Such emotional blackmail would produce a lot of internal criticism in any European country where the government claimed such a thing. In Europe where worldly communications are highly developed, every country can see the internal workings of the rest of the world and governmental criticism is heard of all governments.

However, despite the USAs dominance of mass media, it is frequently only the pro-USA, self-congratulatory messages that seem to arrive in Europe, the USA citizens criticism and disbelief of their own government is not apparent, which gives the overall impression that Americans are either gullible, ignorant or honestly uncaring. It appears to many Europeans that the USA government and its citizens believe two things:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:w-laVASHqMcJ:www.vexen.co.uk/USA/foreign_aid.html+USA+stingiest+country+in+the+world+jimmy+carter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 10:29 am
Speaking of these worn out cliches that Bill seems fond of.


Quote:


That right-wing logic
Monday, July 24, 2006


...

This is true not just when it comes to sexual politics and cultural assumptions. It's also true of nearly every other issue that the American right confronts these days:

-- Worried about global warming? You're the same as the Nazis!

-- Opposed to the war in Iraq? You're "objectively pro-Saddam". Even if it turns out later you were right.

-- So you object to nativist scapegoating in the immigration debate? You must be part of the "open borders crowd" willing to surrender our national sovereignty to the "Reconquistas"!

-- You think Joe Lieberman is an out-of-touch Democrat who needs to be replaced? You must be an angry liberal blogger!

-- Think President Bush overstepped his constitutional bounds by ignoring the law and ordering surveillance of American citizens? You must by a traitor who wants to harm national security!

The list, and the beat, goes on and on.

And you were wondering why so much of our modern discourse resembles Bizarro World? Wonder no more.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/07/that-right-wing-logic.html

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:33 am
Quote:
The "blame America first" crowd is ever on the lookout for creative ways to make the US look bad. Sure, base your analysis on "percentage of GNP," and go ahead and ignore that most of the charitable giving in this country comes from private donations, not from Governmental aid, contrary to most other countries.


My posting, two above, left the misleading impression that Occom Bill was responsible for the above quote. He was not. My apologies.

I retract the following;

Quote:
One more important point. Let's stop with these worn out cliches, Bill.

"The "blame America first" crowd is ..."

They only serve to make you look stupid, to illustrate that you're unwilling to actually address the issues head on. It's not blame America first, it's blame America for what they do wrong. It's what responsible adults do. Should this not extend to responsible countries?


and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:44 am
JTT wrote:
... and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.


When one considers the "blame America first crowd" at A2k, your membership has never been in doubt, JTT.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:47 am
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
... and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.


When one considers the "blame America first crowd" at A2k, your membership has never been in doubt, JTT.


More misdirection, more spin. There are issues to face, Ticomaya. But no, you just rev up the old spin machine. Such has been the case from the first posting of yours I ever read and, note well, it continues unabated. Surprise, surprise!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:01 pm
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
... and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.


When one considers the "blame America first crowd" at A2k, your membership has never been in doubt, JTT.


More misdirection, more spin. There are issues to face, Ticomaya. But no, you just rev up the old spin machine. Such has been the case from the first posting of yours I ever read and, note well, it continues unabated. Surprise, surprise!


Cleaning up leftist BS is a full-time job, I've been a bit overworked of late.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:17 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
... and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.


When one considers the "blame America first crowd" at A2k, your membership has never been in doubt, JTT.


More misdirection, more spin. There are issues to face, Ticomaya. But no, you just rev up the old spin machine. Such has been the case from the first posting of yours I ever read and, note well, it continues unabated. Surprise, surprise!


Cleaning up leftist BS is a full-time job, I've been a bit overworked of late.


You have never tried to clear anything up, ever, Tico. You seek to obfuscate and cloud every issue you're involved in. You do so with inane tangents and directly misleading statements.

You're doing it again, right here, right now.

Address the facts, Tico. You'll feel a lot better about yourself. A life dedicated to deceiving others can't really be all that personally rewarding.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:20 pm
Post "I think it's going to rain today"
Tico responds
"Just another blame America post"
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:51 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Post "I think it's going to rain today"
Tico responds
"Just another blame America post"


Something wake you from your nap, dys?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 12:55 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
Post "I think it's going to rain today"
Tico responds
"Just another blame America post"


Something wake you from your nap, dys?



Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 03:52 pm
JTT wrote:
Quote:
The "blame America first" crowd is ever on the lookout for creative ways to make the US look bad. Sure, base your analysis on "percentage of GNP," and go ahead and ignore that most of the charitable giving in this country comes from private donations, not from Governmental aid, contrary to most other countries.


My posting, two above, left the misleading impression that Occom Bill was responsible for the above quote. He was not. My apologies.

I retract the following;

Quote:
One more important point. Let's stop with these worn out cliches, Bill.

"The "blame America first" crowd is ..."

They only serve to make you look stupid, to illustrate that you're unwilling to actually address the issues head on. It's not blame America first, it's blame America for what they do wrong. It's what responsible adults do. Should this not extend to responsible countries?


and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.
Apology accepted, of course, but whatever dude. I quoted him in agreement and remain in agreement that you are indeed a card-carrying member of the "blame America first" crowd. You confirm as much in your virtually every post (that isn't exclusively ad hominem in nature). Lots and lots of folks get away with opinions that mirror yours on many subjects without being labeled a "blame America first" member. You earn it... so you may as well enjoy it. Interestingly, you still haven't addressed the meat in Tico's counter-point while busying yourself accusing him of avoidance. Perhaps you and your moan-clones (F4F and Blueflame) can imagine a way to pretend he didn't make a valid point.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 05:07 pm
Published on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 by Reuters

Anti-Americanism Prompts Push For "Citizen Diplomacy"

by Bernd Debusmann

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With anti-American sentiment at unprecedented levels around the world, Americans worried about their country's low standing are pushing a grassroots campaign to change foreign perceptions of the United States "one handshake at a time."

The idea is to turn millions of Americans into "citizen diplomats" who use personal meetings with foreigners to counter the ugly image of the United States shown in a series of international public opinion polls. They show widespread negative attitudes not only toward U.S. policies but also toward the American people and, increasingly, even American products.

To stem the relentless decline of America's international standing -- a dramatic change from the almost universal sympathy for the country immediately after the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington --leaders of more than 30 civic organizations formed a "Coalition for Citizen Diplomacy" two years ago.

The coalition, a loose alliance of national, state and community groups, held its first national summit in July in Washington, where speakers deplored the sorry state of the U.S. image but expressed hope that individual action and international people-to-people exchanges could go a long way toward improving things.

Rock Stars, Students

"Citizen diplomacy is the concept that the individual citizen has the right and the responsibility to help shape U.S. foreign relations one handshake at a time," said Sherry Lee Mueller, one of the coalition's leaders.

"Whether you are student sitting next to a foreign scholar at your university, an athlete playing abroad, an elected official welcoming counterparts, a rock star or a business representative overseas, you are a citizen diplomat and can make a life-changing difference."

Not even the most optimistic delegates to the Washington meeting, billed as the first of its kind, thought citizen diplomacy could soon reverse a trend that has accelerated sharply under President George W. Bush, many of whose foreign policy decisions have been criticized as unilateralist and arrogant.

Distaste for America runs so deep that, for example, at the recent World Cup in Germany the American team was the only one asked not to display its national flag on the team bus. In South Korea, traditionally a U.S. ally, two-thirds of people under 30 said in a recent poll that if there were war between North Korea and the United States, they would side with North Korea.

"Anti-Americanism runs deeper and is qualitatively different than in the past, when it was largely attributable to unpopular U.S. policies," Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, says in a new book on the subject, "America Against the World."

Polls show that people who have visited the United States or have been involved in exchange programs have a more favorable impression of the country than those who have not, and one of the questions discussed at the Washington meeting was how to attract more visitors and increase exchange programs.

The coalition embraces long-established organizations such as Sister Cities International, the Fulbright scholarship program and the National Council for International Visitors as well as a host of small groups largely run by volunteers and operated on shoestring budgets.

Bad For Business

Between 4 million and 5 million Americans are estimated to be involved, directly or indirectly, in "citizen diplomacy" projects -- not a large number compared to the overall population of 300 million but substantial in comparison to the 51,000 employees of the U.S Department of State.

Since the alliance was established at a meeting in Racine, Wisconsin two years ago, its members have held 50 "community summits" on citizen diplomacy, most in places not usually associated with foreign policy concerns -- Tulsa, Oklahoma, for example, Chattanooga, Tennessee, or Hopkinsville, Kentucky.

Parallel to the grassroots effort to spread the message that there is more to the United States than wars, superpower arrogance and tourists clad in shorts, a business-backed group called Business for Diplomatic Action (BDA) is lining up corporate support for public diplomacy by business travelers.

BDA, whose board includes executives from Exxon and McDonald's, last May began distributing a "World Citizen's Guide" to corporate travelers with 16 tips to change the behavior patterns that have earned Americans a boorish reputation in the first place.

This is not a philanthropic mission. "American companies should care about America's standing in the world, first of all, because sooner or later anti-Americanism is bad for business," BDA President Keith Reinhard said at the Washington meeting. "Corporate America needs a world that welcomes and values American brands. Unfortunately, this is becoming less and less true."

That holds true even for the United States as a travel destination. "A direct consequence of the decline of America's reputation in the world," according to Reinhard, "is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"

Travel Industry Association Statistics show that the U.S. share of world tourism declined from 7.4 percent in 2000 to 6 percent last year. A 1 percentage point increase, according to the association, would mean 7.6 million additional arrivals, $12.3 billion in additional spending, 150,000 additional jobs, $3.3 billion in additional payroll and $2.1 billion in additional tax revenue.

© Reuters 2006

Cool Seems it's a worldwide thing. Now, I wonder why the REST of the world is wrong about America, and a handful of some of you posters insist that America has no faults? America is not the biggest, brightest, or best. Watch out, your hubris is showing :wink:

_________________
Bush is listening - use big words.
One nation under surveillance.

You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 05:20 pm
Surprisingly good article for you patchy, and it seems like a pretty damn good idea, too (excluding your idiotic commentary, of course. :wink:)
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 05:39 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
JTT wrote:
Quote:
The "blame America first" crowd is ever on the lookout for creative ways to make the US look bad. Sure, base your analysis on "percentage of GNP," and go ahead and ignore that most of the charitable giving in this country comes from private donations, not from Governmental aid, contrary to most other countries.


My posting, two above, left the misleading impression that Occom Bill was responsible for the above quote. He was not. My apologies.

I retract the following;

Quote:
One more important point. Let's stop with these worn out cliches, Bill.

"The "blame America first" crowd is ..."

They only serve to make you look stupid, to illustrate that you're unwilling to actually address the issues head on. It's not blame America first, it's blame America for what they do wrong. It's what responsible adults do. Should this not extend to responsible countries?


and address it to the person directly responsible for the quote, none other than, Ticomaya.


Apology accepted, of course, but whatever dude. I quoted him in agreement and remain in agreement that you are indeed a card-carrying member of the "blame America first" crowd. You confirm as much in your virtually every post (that isn't exclusively ad hominem in nature). Lots and lots of folks get away with opinions that mirror yours on many subjects without being labeled a "blame America first" member. You earn it... so you may as well enjoy it. Interestingly, you still haven't addressed the meat in Tico's counter-point while busying yourself accusing him of avoidance. Perhaps you and your moan-clones (F4F and Blueflame) can imagine a way to pretend he didn't make a valid point.


Bill, I can't imagine why you would think that you, being in agreement with Tico, should constitute anything remotely approaching a consensus on any issue. Further, you didn't even read my posting wherein I said and I quote,

"It's not blame America first, it's blame America for what they do wrong. It's what responsible adults do. Should this not extend to responsible countries?"

I then proceeded to provide copious examples of just how stingy, how self centered the USA is in spite of all the posturing.

You failed, completely, to address any of those FACTS but you tell me Tico actually made a point.

I'm sorry if I missed Tico's "point". It's awfully damn tough to pick out the odd point from the piles of misdirection. Admittedly, he is actually pretty good at his smoke & mirrors routine. He has a "ken mehlman stick to the talking points" schtick that likely fools a lot of people.

Now, if you'll just address the facts in those links, some of which I repeated for you, perhaps we can chat again about "avoidance".
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 06:19 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Surprisingly good article for you patchy, and it seems like a pretty damn good idea, too (excluding your idiotic commentary, of course. :wink:)


Your ad hominems are showing, Bill.

But you're right, this is a good idea. There are many many good Americans out there, people who can honestly embrace and deal with the fact that their government and some of its soldiers have, at times, been guilty of criminal behavior, including war crimes.

But you Bill just want it to go away with not even a slap on the wrist. All you and the blind portion of the America first crowd wantis a free ride all the while posturing and whining about the butchers and dictators of the world who happen to not be in your camp.

The crimes of Vietnam call out for redress. There are many more examples, but you, in your heart, know that so we needn't go further.

Ya just can't be this hypocritical. It's losing its cachet. Many are no longer willing to simply accept what America says.

Why is there this continuing attitude that the USA has done nothing to cause these problems when your own intelligence people tell you there is? Why do you think you can meddle endlessly in other countries' affairs and not suffer any blowback?

How can you be so naive? Of all the peoples of the world, I'll suggest that USA citizens would tolerate this the least if done to them. Steve was right. You have no ability to empathise.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jul, 2006 11:57 pm
'How can you be so naive? Of all the peoples of the world, I'll suggest that USA citizens would tolerate this the least if done to them. Steve was right. You have no ability to empathise'


Oh- but America didn't tolerate it, did they? They struck back after 9/11, fortified with phony pablum by the media. So intent on revenge were the Americans that they didn't even care if Iraq had WMD's or not - didn't care if they got the right country, which they did not - the Saudi's comprised 99% of the pilots who flew the planes on 9/11 -there were no Iraqis on those planes. Americans were, and are, unable to comprehend why another country, or countries, would hate them so much. The message is - America can SH** on other countries but no one better SH** on America. More John Wayne swagger. Americans live in fear; they feed on it and their media hypes it to the max. You, America, have done your share of whining after 9/11 'the day everything changed' but you have not one iota of sympathy for anyone else. (Maybe for YOU it changed; not the rest of the planet- who are quite used to America bombing them, again and again).

America's popularity rating is at an all-time low and you people still can't figure it out.

JTT is right: you have no ability to empathise. Except for yourselves.
0 Replies
 
 

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