a long post....very sorry.
It's good that this record keeping had so many controls, but before this story was run how were the american people to know that?
The records involve thousands of americans and others right? how many thousands?!!?!!?
The records mostly involve wire transfers and other methods of moving money overseas and into and out of the United States. Most routine financial transactions confined to this country are not in the database."
as you can see the records mostly involve wire transfers and most of the records are not of transactions here in the states.
say I had records on 32,000 transactions(thousands). If say 28,000 were not of transactions and the states and of wire transfers I could still make a claim that these were most of the transactions. That would still be 4,000 other kinds of recorded financial records. What else are they looking at?
and to say that the gov't is doing everything within the law b/c they had an independent agency look at the records? well if it's an organization hired by the same people who are collecting the records how can you trust it? Maybe the next time the IRS wants to audit me I'll tell them before they come in, "oh that won't be necessary I had a third party independant accountant I hired look over my finances and he said everything is legal so you can go." The government knows better than to trust so much, so should the people.
everything the executive brach does should be at LEAST be overseen by congress. Afterall this administration has been trying to expand executive power since the beginning, often by hiding behind the we are fighting a war on terror idealogy.
of course the people can't fully trust congress either. That's why most things, including these records should be told to the people. If record keeping like this is allowed behind any kind of closed doors then any kind of information might be next.
afterall what other secret and possibly more threating projects are out there?
This story did not need to be published and I think those media whores congratulate themselves when the next terrorists kills more civilians and soldiers with explosives obtained in this manner.
they aren't traitors and they aren't doing this JUST because it will sell alot of papers. Actually it's just the opposite, in my opinion printing these stories is incredibly patriotic. The media is supposed to conduct oversight of the government. THAT'S ONE OF ITS MAIN PURPOSES!
I would rather die at the hands of terrorists than let the government secretly conduct a program that COULD in ANY way erode my freedoms or make it easier for them to intimidate or control me.
If we lose our freedoms in such a manner then it won't matter if we do beat the terrorists physically they will have defeated us already by taking away our freedoms.
if we allow them to take a even a little here then a little there then maybe one day many of our freedoms will be gone.
Sure the terrorists are the enemy, but so is the government SOMETIMES. We the people need constant vigilance over the Gov't. in order to make sure they don't become our enemy. I believe most things can and should be done in the open.
It may be harder to find terrorist networks, but it beats the alternative of having a government that can look in on anyones personal life with little or no accountability. Sure they SEEM to have put on some checks and balances this time, but what about in the future.
I am not saying we shouldn't hunt for the terrorists, but when the hunt involves anything to do with american freedoms, then it needs to be conducted more openly.
The real danger is that the executive branch probably has even more programs like this we don't even know about. How good are the controls on those?
how long do they get to use "the war on terror idealogy" to do such secretive and borderline illegal things.
Terror after all is an idea, it is not anything tangible. A war on an idea could last forever. They could then expand their power forever.
But the war isn't really on terror that's just the propaganda, the war is on the actual tangible terrorist networks
well that is true but how long have terrorist been around? do you think we will ever be rid of terrorism? There have been terrorists in america who were full blooded american citizens that grew up in the U.S.A.(YAY redundancy) If we can produce such criminal behavior then it can be produced anywhere. There will always be terrorism.
Sure we need to fight and try to prevent terrorism, but since we will never be rid of it then any measures that are made to combat it should be evaluated on there long term consequences. Any measures taken to combat it could be around indefinitely. any measures that might take american freedoms may take away those freedoms indefinitely.
THAT IS SOMETHING I CAN NOT AND WILL NOT EVER ACCEPT!!!