Can your god make a boulder so big that he can't move it?

"I painted this door red with black paint."

See? It always comes down to shedding blood. What IS it with philosophy??



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"Why can't you all just get along?" -- Rodney King

Well, not being a true theist, I'm not sure my opinion means much in this discussion, but I'd say that just about any clever God could create a boulder too big to lift and then create a lever long enough to move it.

Meanwhile, we Taoists will continue to laugh at such polemics while we get silly and dance under the moon.

First there is a mountain
Then there is no mountain
Then there is

-Donovan Leitch

a gift from a flower to a garden

Ah, Donovan . . . (my grandmother's maiden name !)

Happiness runs in a circular motion
Thought is like a little boat upon the sea
Everybody is a part of everything anyway
You can have everything if you let yourself be . . .

gof
C.I., of course YOUR god is bigger than X's god. That's part of the definition of your god and X's god. The biggest, badest dude of all. Right?

Is bigger really better?
Do only the largest seeds bloom?

"The God i believe in ain't short o' cash, Mister !"

-- Bono

What is happy? Can it buy money? -

Never mind lifting a rock, god can't even create matter, although s/he's certainly fooling most.

If we had a definition of perfection, it would be on a sliding scale, total corruption on one side of the scale, and total perfection on the other and as so far there has been no actualisation of perfection, and "perfection" has the status of a concept.

The problem is imagining the nature of a perfect being as Craven de Kere has said perfection is seen subjectively to describe different things, when one says something is done perfectly this usually means to the best of your ability since we do not have any real knowledge of perfection because it has not been actualised - in theory there can be being who can create something better in every attribute than objects that humans create.
I have no idea what perfection is though

How would you define perfection? By that I mean what is your operating definition.

I'm operating under the assumption that you use the word with some regularity.

Well . . . i never . . . this is perfectly ree-dick-you-louse . . .

okbye

Craven, are we talking the nature of the word in a particular context or the word in its entirity? One could say there is a perfect energy transfer between a reaction with two substances but this isn't really relevant to the question since it is a perfect as in 100% efficientcy of energy.
I'm guessing we dont wasnt to get stuck in the ontological argument, that God exists because he is perfect. Perfection is a theoretical meaning as it doesnt entail existing in reality. I was using as a defintion of perfection as the greatest possible in all atributes until i saw the paradox that God could have impossible attributes too.

God created Ohio

I was speaking of the word. I would have defined it as "without flaw" and you seem to have leaned toward "the greatest". To some it's more of a superlative while to others it's more of an adjective.

Both are subjective and tricky but it's interesting to hear what definition people operate under.

You musta never been here . . .

If you consider the largest possible "rock" to be the multiverse itself (including all of the matter, energy, and spacetime in our own universe and any others that may exist), then it would be impossible for a god to move it relative to anything else since by definition there IS nothing else.

I do not think there are definable standards of perfection for any being. Swedes and pygmies would not agree on the ideal height and hair color. Is a perfect person submissive to gods and government or one who thinks independently and acts as conscience dictates? There is no consensus on breed or even behavior for canine perfection. Mice do not consider sharp claws and stealth to be ideal attributes for cats. Is there a perfect virus or a perfect beetle? What color is a perfect rose?

If a god is perfect, would he take sides when appealed to by warring factions or guide them to a peaceful resolution? Is it perfectly ethical to injure some people for the benefit of others? Is there any law in the universe that prohibits a god from being cruel, or morally obligates an omnipotent deity to alleviate suffering? Should it warn us of mistakes we are going to make, or may it through inaction allow us to come to harm? Does the promise of paradise justify unnecessary pain inflicted during our mortal existence? Why would a perfect being create an imperfect world and set species against species in an endless struggle to survive at the expense of other living beings?

Why do people insist that their god is perfect, anyway? It seems to me to be nothing more than wishful thinking. The sole occupant of the universe would have no reason to acquire morals and a supreme being has no one to hold him to the ethical standards of enlightened society. He could move the third rock out of orbit and send it crashing into the sun or simply drown all of the inhabitants in a fit of pique. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who judges the Judge?


A perfect circle is a closed plane curve in which every point is equidistant from the center. Some of the points on any circle that is actually constructed will deviate from "perfect" no matter how carefully you draw it. It would take some serious warping of spacetime to make a square even come close.

Space-time is not a continuum.
Imagination is the smoothest surface of all.
If only our Dreams are perfect,
then I would be feign to awake and discover the Truth!
So let me sleep among the disease
and love the perfection that we sow.