BDV
 
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 02:22 pm
I have been reading through quite a few threads and notice many atheists here, now my question is quite straight forward, which one of the above is most of yous ? and why? surely an Atheist with a bible, is an agnostic as they are are seeking some sort of higher truth ? or are most atheist minds finally made up, which means they will not accept any sort of afterlife truth no matter how presented ? or are you an atheist towards modern religion

Personally I am an agnostic, I believe there is a possible higher being, and why not ? (But if thats not one preached my modern religion then that makes me an atheists) but who it is is another question, is there just one God, I doubt that!! but anyway science one day will provide an answer but at the moment literal religious students who try and prove made up garbage written thousands of years ago while ignoring other book written at the same time will only slow the process, and science only fact only take us steps backwards, Quantum physics proves that, so if this is true then maybe most Atheists are agnostic (Seekers of truth)....

Well I hope I can get some good answers on this
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tin sword arthur
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 02:27 pm
I am an atheist. Plain and simple. I have no belief of a higher being or afterlife. But I have no problem with anyone that does.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 02:37 pm
I am a Buddhist. Buddhist believe the "higher being" is actually within ourselves. There is a lot of philosophy that goes with it but let's keep it short.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:03 pm
IMO, religionists, deists in particular, and atheists alike base their respective positions on nought but preference and assumption. While it has not been demonstrated that there be or not be a deity or deities, neither has it been demonstrated there can be no such. However remote or improbable, the possibilty exists, at least to within the limits of humankind's to-date assembled knowledge and means of determination. The data necessary to unambiguously, conclusively confirm either conclusion pertaining to the existence or non-existance of a deity or deities, pro or con, simply does not exist.

At the same time, I submit the very concept of a "higher truth" presents an oxymoronic absurdity. Dogma and faith, while not perforce antithetical to logic and reason, serve functionally to be so. Metaphysics is simply - and in the end simple - entertainment; theology is purely a construct of sophistry, and organized religion ultimately is but a job protection scheme for its perpetrators the priesthood however it is termed. God sells, and the populace provides both endless, eager market and a ready pool from which to draw sales agents.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:11 pm
physical=that which exists
metaphysical= that which does not exist.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:18 pm
I believe metaphysical is best explained:

Literally, beyond the physical realm, beyond that which we can realize or discover with our five senses. Also, a branch of philosophy which studies the "beingness" or inherent nature of reality

dyslexia wrote:
physical=that which exists
metaphysical= that which does not exist.


A point also is that some recent discoveries point to other senses, i believe blind people, when loosing one sense gain another which allows them to see objects in their path. One example below

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_1263566.htm

And to a previous answer, yes i do believe hardened atheists and religionists are one in the same people that just took different paths, the mind should always be left open to new ideas....
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:22 pm
BDV, if metaphysical were explained it would no longer be metaphysical. You are indeed a silly goose.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:22 pm
You claim that agnostic means a seeker after truth. That is a wonderful self-congratulatory definition, and a false one. Agnostic, from the Greek gnosis, meaning knowledge, and the prefix a-, meaning without, means without knowledge--it means not knowing. It is not axiomatic that those who don't know seek the truth. As for the keeping an open mind dodge, everyone, everyday makes the myriad small judgments necessary to effectively prosecute one's existence. For an intellectual pose, agnosticism seems cool--in a pragmatic context, it is without function. We must decide moment by moment, throughout the day, what we know and what we believe, or we would be paralyzed into inaction.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:38 pm
I see what happens here, yous feel that you and only you know the answer, so you result to slander in the hope of getting the intellectual high ground and being as they would say the big guy in the big picture, this points once again to a closed mind that will not allow any form of discussion or change.

Agnostic - I am quite well aware of the term and greek translation, but it does not remove from itself the meaning which many modern people use it for, if there is a better word for Agnostic, then tell me but as far as i can see it wouldn't matter as you would find some literal way to rip it apart.

Metaphysical - The def I quoted is from the web, if it doesn't exist then why have a word for it, surely the term must be flexible to allow change, what i mean it may be metaphysical one day then physical the next
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:40 pm
There was not a bit of slander in what i posted. If you want to feel that you are suffering for the truth, enjoying some sort of virtual martyrdom, you sound more like christian fanatics than an agnostic. But, at least it will fit well with your avatar picture.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:41 pm
BDV wrote:

Metaphysical - The def I quoted is from the web, if it doesn't exist then why have a word for it, surely the term must be flexible to allow change, what i mean it may be metaphysical one day then physical the next

BDV, you're not helping your case. In fact your just digging deeper. Fiat Lux.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:56 pm
Point proven, I am not looking a case, after reading your posts I can only shake my head in disappointment. I wish I could have a conversation without the bitching about the def of a word, but you made my point, go to a bible bashing forum and you will meet you match, atheists and religionists are one in the same, narrow minded, self centered, arrogant assholes.

Best quote of post "I am an atheist. Plain and simple. I have no belief of a higher being or afterlife. But I have no problem with anyone that does."

(Note: "no problem with anyone else")

Anyway I thought some normal discussion can go on here, but its obvious it can't, "Let's annoy the hell outa anyone who isn't us so they will leave" comes to mind, so now I will wait to be banned, as i don't fit into your world.

Bit of advise stop giving people continual **** about nothing, it may work 4 you, but in the long run someone will get the upper hand
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:59 pm
No one is giving you ****--you are being disagreed with. A bit of advice: if you can't handle the disagreement, then perhaps you ought not to frequent discussion fora.

You're not going to be banned unless you begin to violate the terms of service--so far, nothing that you have done has violated the terms of service. If you want to be banned, you'll have to get a lot nastier with people than you have done so far.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:06 pm
Yo BDV...

...you will find that Set is gonna go through his "agnosticism is bullshyt" pap...and declare that he has scored some kind of coup on this issue.

The question actually being asked is: What is the nature of the REALITY of existence?

I don't know.

I cannot specifically exclude some of the stuff people like Set want to exclude (while pretending not to be doing so.)

The position "I do not know...and I do not have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess" is a fine, truthful, reasonable, logical position to take.

I take that position.

I am an agnostic.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:31 pm
Thankyou frank, as a newbie to the site I was expecting this in a way, but when people choose to ignore parts of your statement and then scrutinize your definitions of a word, then it becomes hard to listen too, it just reminded me of a "Da Vinci Code" meeting I went to of born again christians, no matter what i said about their religion just met eyes that had an auto delete built in, making it impossible to make a point or cross examine their convictions.

Even when i pointed out that their video of truth said the gnostic gospels where found in the dead sea scrolls was wrong (And that came from a christian historian on the video) they just looked blankly and immediately ereased what i had said.

I hope and look forward to some open minded conversations here, but do expect an english language lesson.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Yo BDV...

...you will find that Set is gonna go through his "agnosticism is bullshyt" pap...and declare that he has scored some kind of coup on this issue.

The question actually being asked is: What is the nature of the REALITY of existence?

I don't know.

I cannot specifically exclude some of the stuff people like Set want to exclude (while pretending not to be doing so.)

The position "I do not know...and I do not have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess" is a fine, truthful, reasonable, logical position to take.

I take that position.

I am an agnostic.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:34 pm
I log in as an atheist. I don't consider agnosticism viable, any more than religion.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:41 pm
It seemed my picture of Jesus (Which i quite liked) was annoying people, so i have changed it to a weeble, long live the weebles!!!
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:52 pm
I am an atheist, as I am 'without theology'. That is what an atheist is..one who lacks a belief in god or gods.
An atheist, counter to christian propaganda, does not need to outright deny the possibility of any sort of 'higher power' to qualify for his position.

Personally, I find all current faith based religion and mythiopeas to be so highly improbable that I don't lend them much consideration. As for the existence of a 'higher power'; what is a higher power? What constitutes 'higher'?
Technological advancement? If that is the case I find the possibility of 'higher powers' statistically very likely.
It all depends on how the term is defined.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 05:21 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I log in as an atheist. I don't consider agnosticism viable, any more than religion.


Theism is pretty much a belief (or guess) that there is a God.

Atheism is pretty much a belief (or guess) that there are no gods.

Agnosticism is acknowledgement that we do not know...and further acknowledges that we do not have enough unambiguous evidence about the nature of REALITY specifically to include or exclude the notion of gods.

Atheists and theists are essentially the same thing...except that the guesses made are in different directions.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 05:22 pm
I imagine we will soon be hearing about purple CPA's working on a moon of Saturn. That is normally where the atheists go at this point.
0 Replies
 
 

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