Forsyte Saga

This is the best news I've heard all week. Like you, Hazlitt, I've longed for years to be able to see the 1960's version of The Forsyte Saga again. I saw it when it was first shown in the U.S. in 1969, and I have very fond memories of it. I'll be curious to see if I still like it as much after all this time. I'm not bothered by the fact that it's in black-and-white, but I wonder whether the production values will seem a little primitive, after the more sophisticated TV productions we've gotten used to in the past 30 years. But even if the production is a little threadbare, I can't imagine how it can be anything less than riveting, with that wonderful cast.

I envy you, Hazlitt; given the New York Public Library's current budget woes, copies of a 7-DVD set probably won't be coming to my neighborhood library branch any time soon, but it's never too early to start dropping hints to my family about what I'd like for Christmas!

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Here is a link to a previous Forsyte Saga discussion. That one dealt with the recent production which was mostly a disastrous distortion of Galsworthy's work.

There were some good comments, especially by Bree.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=716

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I have fond memories of the original dramatization. It was, if memory serves, the presentation that enabled "Masterpiece Theatre" to make its name. I was in college at the time, and it was reassuring to see something done so well on TV back then.

Then again, it would be equally reassuring to see something as well done now. Though I did think that last year's "The Way We Live Now" was every bit as good...

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LOVED that dramatisation! I might just buy it. Wow!

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Hazlitt- I remember that series as if it were today. It was WONDERFUL!
Love to see it again!

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When I first saw the Saga I had great sympathy for Irene, and who wouldn't, but it was interesting in my recent viewing to note the gradual transformation of Soames from the young lawyer who sought to posess his sensitive and lovely wife as it she were property into the still gruff but more loving and conscionable elderly head of the clan: from a hated character to a man for whom I felt sympathy.

The whole thing was infused with high English humor in the form of crusty asides from the old uncles commenting mostly on social trends of which they usually disapproved.

D'art, I too enjoyed "The Way We Live Now." That is one Trollope novel I've not read, so I cannot compare the Masterpiece Theater presentation to the original.

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Hazlitt- You are lucky. My library only has the new version on DVD. Amazon wants $128- to buy the original!

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Phoenix, Yes, it's the DVDs that we got from the library. Luckily, I've got a DVD player that a friend gave me when he bought a better one. The one I have is pretty primitive, but it works.

I think I'd put the $128 into a DVD player. There is a noticeable improvement in both picture and sound. I especially appreciate the sound improvement when watching old movies. It still may not be perfect, but it's not as scratchy and mushy as on some old tapes.

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Hazlitt- I think that I was unclear in my last post. I HAVE a DVD player. (I also have about 1,000 VHS tapes, but that's a whole other story! )

What I meant was that my library only had the more recent version of the Forsyte Saga, not the one with Nyree Dawn Porter!

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Well, Phoenix, I'm a little dense. I hope you'll get used to that in time. What you wrote and what I read were two different things.

I suggest you go over to the library, throw yourself on the floor, tear your hair, and gnash your teeth- maybe froth at the mouth- and insist that they order a copy of the original.

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Re: Forsyte Saga

Hazlitt wrote:

I was flabbergasted last week when Mrs. Hazlitt came home from the library with 7 DVDs representing 26 episodes of the original Forsyte Saga with Eric Porter as Soames and Nyree Dawn Porter as Irene. This thing first played in the late 60s, and many of us who saw it have pined for the day it would come out on tape. Now, finally, here it is! We kept it for a week and watched all twenty-one-and-a-half hours of it. It was a most intense pleasure.

Has anyone else seen it? What did you think?

I, too, have just completed watching all the DVDs of the 1967 version. What a wonderful experience! I missed it the first time around. It was the new version recently shown on Masterpiece Theater that whetted my curiosity. And then my young teenage daughter immediately went to the library to read the book (her lazy mother - meaning me - did not, but she gave me the highlights. :-) Then we discovered the original version on video and DVD at our local video rental store. My daughter begged me to rent them (and I wondered if I would manage to be able to watch all 26 episodes....well, 'manage,' I did!).

And I found myself falling in love with Soames Forsyte, as portrayed by Eric Porter. Irene was a fool. And I must say, it was something that Eric Porter himself brought to the role. I really don't think I am supposed to be as sympathetic towards the character as I was. Unfortunately, Eric Porter has since died, so I don't suppose there's much point in writing him a fan letter, is there? But I certainly have tried to find him in other works (difficult, because most of his work was on the stage, or in BBC plays of the week that I can't find on video here in the states). But just this week alone, I have watched him play the psychiatrist in "The Pumpkin Eater," his brief stint as a Russian prime minister in "Nicholas and Alexandra," his deliciously evil turn as Professor Moriarty in "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes," an interesting Neville Chamberlain in "Churchill: The Wilderness Years," and an obvious choice for Fagin in "Oliver Twist."

Can you tell I am a new fan? :-) BTW.....the last DVD of The Forsyte Saga has 'special features,' with interviews and behind-the-scenes footage. Well, in one of the scenes is the 'Rehearsal Hall,' showing the cast in modern day dress rehearsing their scenes. The camera focuses mostly on Nyree Dawn Porter playing a silent keyboard while reciting her lines to 'Jon.' But before that scene, the camera had scanned across the hall, and there in the background is Eric Porter, wearing what I always called a 'Beatle' cap, and a long pea coat, smoking a cigarette, and looking divine. I had to put the DVD player on 'pause' and 'slow motion' in order to really appreciate it. Sigh.

:-)

-Jill-

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bree wrote:

This is the best news I've heard all week. Like you, Hazlitt, I've longed for years to be able to see the 1960's version of The Forsyte Saga again. I saw it when it was first shown in the U.S. in 1969, and I have very fond memories of it. I'll be curious to see if I still like it as much after all this time. I'm not bothered by the fact that it's in black-and-white, but I wonder whether the production values will seem a little primitive, after the more sophisticated TV productions we've gotten used to in the past 30 years. But even if the production is a little threadbare, I can't imagine how it can be anything less than riveting, with that wonderful cast.

The production values are VERY primitive, reminding one of the old days of 'live' television. Though The Forsyte Saga was not 'live,' and they WERE allowed retakes (as witnessed by the 'outtakes' on the 'special features' part of the last DVD), still, one gets the impression that they didn't have a lot of time to perfect these scenes (coats will fall off of coat racks right before your eyes). And not ALL the acting is first-rate. But the ones who are good......are very, very good. And it is a seductive, mesmerizing bit of television. It IS a soap opera, and the viewer begins to really care for these people, and worry about them, and chide them mentally when they make mistakes, and cheer them on when they do the right thing.

One of the benefits of being in black and white is that the producers were able to cut in vintage newsreels of the time (i.e., the funeral procession for Queen Victoria), in a seamless manner.

-Jill-

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Hazlitt wrote:

When I first saw the Saga I had great sympathy for Irene, and who wouldn't, but it was interesting in my recent viewing to note the gradual transformation of Soames from the young lawyer who sought to posess his sensitive and lovely wife as it she were property into the still gruff but more loving and conscionable elderly head of the clan: from a hated character to a man for whom I felt sympathy.

I absolutely cannot stand the character of Irene. I assume Galsworthy wanted me to feel sympathy towards her, but I can't do it. I find her to be self-centered, creating havoc in other people's lives without ever looking back. It was always 'her way, or the highway.' Did she ever commit a selfless act in her life? Granted, she did charity work for girls who ended up on the street.....but that probably stemmed more from her hatred of men who put them there, than any compassion for the girls themselves. I found her to be cold, and so self-involved as to almost be mentally ill. She got along with the 'Jolyons,' because they were attracted to her, and admired her, and were passive men who were content to bask in her light.

In retrospect, the reason Soames and Irene were doomed in their relationship was because they were both 'control freaks.' Each in their own way.

-Jill-

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Jill, you raise some interesting points. I can't say I'm quite as smitten with Eric Porter as you are, but I agree he brought a personal charm to the role of Soames that was lacking from Damian Lewis's portrayal of the character in the new version -- although that may not be entirely Lewis's fault, since (as I said in an earlier post) he was directed to play the part as if Soames were a raving lunatic.

When I was in England on vacation earlier this month, I happened to see the last episode of the second part of the new Forsyte Saga on TV. If the first part was somewhat disappointing, the second part (or at least what I saw of it) is absolutely dreadful. (Spoiler alert: anyone who doesn't know what happens after the first part of the new version, and who doesn't want to know, should read no further.)

I know that The Forsyte Saga is essentially a soap opera, but the actors who played Fleur and Jon (who may be perfectly good actors, for all I know; I've never seen either of them before, so I can't say) were apparently encouraged to engage in the worst excesses of daytime soap opera acting. For example, when Jon finally tells Fleur that he can't marry her because her father was such a beast to his mother, Fleur stands outside Jon's home, repeatedly screaming his name (and I mean repeatedly -- the scene seemed to go on for hours) until Soames finally comes along and forcibly drags her away. And there's a scene that takes place in June's art gallery (i.e., in public), where Jon tells June that it's all over between him and Fleur, and then bursts into sobs. I was sitting in my hotel room, incredulously inquiring of the TV, "Don't you people know you're English?"

And as for cheesy production values, there was one scene in the new version that rivalled any of the primitive effects in the original. Damian Lewis is obviously much younger than Soames is supposed to be in Part 2, so he was made up to appear older than he is. In a scene between Soames and Fleur on the morning of her wedding to Michael (when Soames tells Fleur that it still isn't too late to back out), the line on the actor's forehead where his "old man" hair was attached to his head was so obvious I couldn't take my eyes off it! You'd think that, in this day and age, they could at least have gotten that right.

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Hazlitt -- You were helpful when I posted a "where's the old Forsyte Saga video" query in Abuzz and I'm still grateful. And the video is now available (maybe DVD, don't remember).

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bree wrote:

(Spoiler alert: anyone who doesn't know what happens after the first part of the new version, and who doesn't want to know, should read no further.)

I know that The Forsyte Saga is essentially a soap opera, but the actors who played Fleur and Jon (who may be perfectly good actors, for all I know; I've never seen either of them before, so I can't say) were apparently encouraged to engage in the worst excesses of daytime soap opera acting. For example, when Jon finally tells Fleur that he can't marry her because her father was such a beast to his mother, Fleur stands outside Jon's home, repeatedly screaming his name (and I mean repeatedly -- the scene seemed to go on for hours) until Soames finally comes along and forcibly drags her away. And there's a scene that takes place in June's art gallery (i.e., in public), where Jon tells June that it's all over between him and Fleur, and then bursts into sobs. I was sitting in my hotel room, incredulously inquiring of the TV, "Don't you people know you're English?"

I read your post aloud to my daughter (the only person in my household who has actually read the book), and she said she remembers Fleur in the book as being more hysterical than Susan Hampshire led us to believe in the original production. Apparently there is a scene in the book where Fleur falls to the floor in hysterics. I asked my daughter if Soames then led her away. She said no, that he ended up leaving the room. 'Was he disgusted,' I ask? And she said, 'No, but he was upset.' 'With Fleur?' I inquired. 'No.....more with himself, than anything.'

Okay, now I'm just going to have to read the book myself, that does it! LOL! What an intriguing story, when so many interpretations can be brought to the table. As for Jon bursting into sobs, my child does not recall that scene in the novel......but she doesn't recollect every single scene in the novel, either. She points out to me that at the time she read the book, she had only seen the newer version, and it was their faces that were in her mind the whole time. Seeing the older version LAST changed her perspective somewhat. She also reminds me of the fact that her and I were captivated by the newer version, before we had anything else to compare it with.

Hopefully the fans of the new version will want to view the old version, also......and to read the book.

But it may be too much to ask of many people in the viewing audience to sit through the more primitive 1967 production. And then again......the type of people who watch Masterpiece Theater in the first place tend to be an intelligent, discerning lot. :-)

-Jill-

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