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Oh now you want to talk about separation of powers

 
 
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 09:05 pm
http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-05-23-voa89.cfm

Quote:
An unprecedented search carried out by the FBI in the office of a member of Congress continues to stir controversy. Majority Republican leaders in the House of Representatives are outraged by the incident, which involves a bribery-related federal investigation into the activities of a House Democrat.

FBI agents conducted an intensive search last Saturday and Sunday of the Capitol Hill office of Louisiana Congressman William Jefferson.

They were executing a search warrant coinciding with the unsealing of court documents alleging Jefferson accepted bribes in the process of brokering business deals for companies and governments in West Africa.

During the investigation the lawmaker was videotaped taking a briefcase containing $100,000 out of a parked car.

Authorities say they later recovered $90,000 of that money stored in a freezer in his home, money federal officials say matched cash he had received from an FBI informer.

While attention is focused on Congressman Jefferson, who has not yet been formally charged with any crime, controversy is swirling over the methods used by the FBI in searching his office.

House Majority Leader John Boehner didn't mince words when he told reporters in an off-camera briefing he has serious concerns about the search and, in his words, whether people at the Justice Department have looked at the Constitution lately.

Earlier, House Speaker Dennis Hastert issued a statement saying authorities had crossed a line separating Congress from the executive branch by searching a congressional office while investigating a lawmaker, saying he sees constitutional problems.

Congressman Boehner says it would be up to Speaker Hastert to take the lead to protect the interests of the legislative branch of government, predicting that the matter might eventually go to the Supreme Court.

Congressman Jefferson has refused to comment on details of his case, and used a news conference Monday to repeat his contention that he has done nothing wrong, and blasted federal authorities.

"I think it [the search of his office] represents an outrageous intrusion into the separation of powers between the executive branch and the congressional branch, and no one has seen this in the entire life of the Congress."

Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez has referred to what he calls unusual circumstances in approving the search of Jefferson's office.

He expanded on this Tuesday, saying authorities were unable to get the evidence they needed through the normal subpoena process.

"We worked very hard over a period of time to get the information, the evidence that we felt was important to a criminal investigation," said Mr. Gonzalez. "And at the end of the day, the decision was made that this was absolutely essential to move forward with that investigation."

Gonzalez says his office is taking steps to allay lawmaker's concerns over the basis for the search of the congressional office.

However, those concerns cross party lines. House Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi said while members of Congress must obey the law and cooperate fully with any criminal investigation, Justice Department investigations must be conducted in accordance with Constitutional protections and historical precedent so that the government's system of checks and balances is not undermined.

House Democratic leaders have not issued any call for Congressman Jefferson to resign his House seat.

Jefferson and Republican Congressman Bob Ney, are also the subject of an investigation by the House of Representatives ethics committee.


Doesn't feel so good when it happens to you, huh. Now maybe you can stick up for the rest of us, bunch of pussies.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 756 • Replies: 12
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 10:22 pm
Re: Oh now you want to talk about separation of powers
Well, what's the implication here? Is it that the search warrant was defective, or that members of congress are somehow exempt from the laws and procedures that apply to the rest of us. In any case, who issued the warrant? If it was done by the judiciary, as I would expect, that would seem to be the separation of powers you ask about.

If there was good cause for the warrant to be issued, and it was done by a judge, as I suppose, I don't see the issue.

To your main question, though, I do, and always have been a supporter of this. I don't believe our current administration shares that belief; I'm just having trouble seeing how it applies in this particular case.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 11:00 pm
I think the point is that congressmen are upset about the search. The guilty flee and all that.....
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 May, 2006 11:09 pm
Ah! That could be. I'd hate to think they're all a bunch of crooks, but Dad's been right before. Personally, I rejoice in one of them being taken down - assuming guilt, of course.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 07:29 am
Yeah, I don't know if there really IS a separation of powers issue. And the guy they are investigating looks to be pretty corrupt, so it's a wonder they haven't indicted him yet. I just think it's interesting that they aren't very concerned about separation of powers when it's the people getting screwed, but when their offices are searched, oh, now we have to talk about it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure this administration has no respect for the Constitution, and it's possible there really was a violation here, I just think they should have said something before.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 07:32 am
No matter what the administration wants, I expect the FBI has its ducks in a row.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 07:34 am
There's a little bit more info here.

Quote:
Office search riles GOP
Jefferson raid violates precedent, they say
Wednesday, May 24, 2006
By Bruce Alpert
Washington bureau

WASHINGTON -- House Republicans continued Tuesday to strongly denounce the weekend FBI raid of Democrat William Jefferson's congressional office as a possible violation of the Constitution's separation of powers.

Telling reporters that he was trying to restrain his outrage, House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said he expects congressional leaders will talk about "the Justice Department's invasion of the legislative branch."

"I've got to believe, at the end of the day, it's going to end up across the street at the Supreme Court," he said.

The raid of the New Orleans congressman's office by more than a dozen FBI agents Sunday marked the first time in U.S. history that federal agents had searched the office of a sitting member of Congress, according to the Justice Department.

The FBI has been investigating Jefferson since March 2005, when a cooperating witness, Lori Mody, agreed to secretly record conversations that investigators say included discussions about how a percentage of the proceeds of telecommunications deal in Nigeria and Ghana could be paid to a company controlled by Jefferson's family.

Jefferson has not been charged and has denied wrongdoing.

U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez said Tuesday that the government believed it had no alternative but to search Jefferson's office.

"The reason it has never been done before is because we have been able to reach an accommodation, to reach an agreement, to receive the evidence that we need to prosecute wrongdoing through a subpoena," Gonzalez said. "And for a variety of reasons, that could not occur here. And we worked very hard over a period of time to get the information, the evidence that we felt was important to a criminal investigation."

Investigators say Jefferson also solicited a $100,000 cash payment from Mody that he said would be used to bribe a Nigerian official to advance the project. All but $10,000 of the money was found in the freezer of Jefferson's Washington home.

Robert Trout, Jefferson's attorney, did not return a call seeking a comment Tuesday. But he has said that information sought by the FBI, including faxes, notes, telephone records, ledgers and computer files, were all safeguarded and not at any risk of being destroyed or lost.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said he understands that there is a need to investigate possible wrongdoing, wherever it occurs, but that "nothing I have learned in the last 48 hours leads me to believe that there was any necessity to change the precedent" of more than 200 years.

Spillover to other probes

Political analysts suggested that the GOP concern may be shaped in part by other ongoing federal probes.

Norm Ornstein, a veteran congressional observer for the conservative American Enterprise Institute, said it looks to him as though the Justice Department was on a fishing expedition with the office raid, given all the taped evidence it has already gathered on Jefferson.

What motivates Republican leaders, Ornstein said, is a fear that federal prosecutors are sending a message that they are extending the investigation well beyond Jefferson to include GOP wrongdoing related to lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who has pleaded guilty to bribery and tax evasion, and former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Calif., who pleaded guilty to taking millions of dollars in bribes to add defense appropriations to spending bills.

Thomas Mann of the liberal Brookings Institution agreed.

"They must be worried by the expanding Department of Justice investigations following the Cunningham plea and the Abramoff affair, both of which are likely to involve sitting Republican members of the House and Senate," Mann said.

Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., said he has ordered his staff at the Senate Rules Committee to prepare a memo on how the Senate should respond if the Justice Department attempts to search a senator's office.

"This is a little bit of a wake-up call," Lott said. "I don't know if what happened here (with Jefferson) was appropriate, but I want to make sure to create" a process to deal with such an event.

Crime investigation

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada was much more restrained than his Republican counterparts in talking about the raid.

"I believe strongly in separation of powers," Reid said. But, he said, when people commit crimes they should be prosecuted, whether "that person is a member of Congress or driving a cab."

"I will be happy to take a look at this," Reid said. "From the little bit that I know about it now, I'm not going to beat up on the FBI."

Another analyst said that members of Congress should protect congressional independence, but noted that current GOP leadership has not been nearly as aggressive in demanding information or access to documents from the current administration as it was when Democrat Bill Clinton was in the White House.

"They might be right about the separation of powers question, but they could have left Democrats to make the legalistic arguments that look so bad to voters," said Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. "Instead, it's the Republicans who moved front and center to demand that members of Congress should be treated better than the average American who is suspected of committing a serious crime. People absolutely despise the fact that congressmen think there are two sets of rules: one for Congress and the other set for everyone else."

. . . . . . .

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/washington/index.ssf?/base/news-1/114846734450150.xml&coll=1
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 07:43 am
If he's guilty, he should pay the price. End of story.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 10:42 am
Okay, FreeDuck. I completely missed your point. It does look like congressional privilage transends party lines, not constitutional issues.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 02:56 pm
Oh my. The plot thickens.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/05/24/ap2771098.html
Quote:
House leaders of both parties stood in rare election-year unanimity Wednesday demanding the FBI surrender documents it took and remove agents involved in the weekend raid of a congressman's office.

"The Justice Department must immediately return the papers it unconstitutionally seized," House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said in a statement.


The leaders said that the congressman, William Jefferson, a Louisiana Democrat, should then cooperate with the investigation.

Earlier, Hastert had said any FBI agents involved "ought to be frozen out of that (case) just for the sake of the constitutional aspects of it."

Both parties have protested the Saturday night search of Jefferson's office on Capitol Hill, which they said violated the Constitution's separation of powers doctrine.

FBI agents searched Jefferson's office in pursuit of evidence in a bribery investigation. The search warrant, signed by U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Hogan, was based on an affidavit that said agents found $90,000 in cash stashed in the freezer of Jefferson's home.

White House officials said they did not learn of the search until after it happened. They pledged to work with the Justice Department to soothe lawmakers.

Democrats, meanwhile, tried to get Jefferson to resign his seat on the House's most prestigious panel.

"In the interest of upholding the high ethical standard of the House Democratic Caucus, I am writing to request your immediate resignation from the Ways and Means Committee," wrote Pelosi.

Jefferson was defiant.

"With respect, I decline to do so," he wrote back to Pelosi. "I will not give up a committee assignment that is so vital to New Orleans at this crucial time for any uncertain, long-term political strategy."

Jefferson, meanwhile, filed a motion asking the judge to order the FBI to return all of the documents taken from his office during the 15-hour search.

Jefferson's motion said the search violated "speech and debate" protections in the Constitution to ensure the independence of lawmakers.

Presidential administrations and Congress have routinely subpoenaed information from each other, and often they have refused to give up the materials sought.

This is the first time the branch seeking the information dispatched its law enforcement arm to wrest materials from the office of a sitting congressman who is the target of a probe.

Most members of the leadership of both houses objected to the search because they said it violated the Constitution.

"The institution has a right to protect itself against the executive department going into our offices and violating what is the (Constitution's) speech and debate clause, which essentially says, `That's none of your business, executive department,'" said House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland.

Republicans were being careful to protest the raid without defending Jefferson.

Some House officials are predicting the case will bring all three branches together at the Supreme Court for a constitutional showdown. Historians say it was the first raid of a representative's quarters in Congress' 219 years.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales tried to strike a conciliatory tone, saying, "We have a great deal of respect for the Congress as a coequal branch of government." But he also defended the search: "We have an obligation to the American people to pursue the evidence where it exists."

Justice Department officials said the decision to search Jefferson's office was made in part because he refused to comply with a subpoena for documents last summer. Jefferson reported the subpoena to the House on Sept. 15, 2005.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 05:14 pm
Politicians of both parties get to Washington and they begin to think they are the privileged class above everybody else. Ample proof of this beyond this incident. Throw em all out that think they are above the law.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 May, 2006 03:46 pm
Quote:

Let's Throw the Bum Out

by Bill Press

...

But - does that mean that Democrats are just as mired as Republicans in wrong-doing?

No way. In the list of politicians now under investigation, the count is now: Republicans 15, Democrats 1.

No doubt which is the party of corruption.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-press/lets-throw-the-bum-out_b_21573.html

0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 06:57 am
I was having trouble getting across my point in this thread for lack of words. Chuck Schumer has done it for me here.

Quote:
"I note your public outrage over this search of a Member of Congress because it is in stark contrast to the conspicuous lack of such concern regarding similar questions about this administration's actions regarding millions of average citizens," Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) teased in a letter to Hastert. "[Y]ou and your Republican colleagues have ranged from largely silent to vehemently supportive of every action this Administration has taken to expand executive powers."


Washington Post article
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