CAPTAIN GODDARD DIES IN AFGHANISTAN

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I've put this in Politics because the intent is to discuss women in combat. The Canadians have taken over much of southern Afghanistan from the Americans--they are being joined by English and Dutch troops. Based on Kandahar, Canadian troops have been in a shooting war with the Taliban, or alleged Taliban fighters, for months now. Captain Nichola Goddard, of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery (Manitoba) was a foward observer, and was killed in intense fighting fewer than 20 miles from Kandahar.

[i]The Globe and Mail[/i] (Toronto) wrote:

26-year-old officer becomes the first Canadian woman yet to die in combat

GEOFFREY YORK[/b]

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

On the eve of her death, Captain Nichola Goddard knew she was facing one of the biggest dangers of her life. She was tired -- as tired as every other soldier who pulls long hours on the job -- but she was filled with excitement.

She was embarking on one of the most arduous battles of Canada's military mission in Afghanistan: a crucial fight to break the Taliban's grip on a strategic district at the western entrance to Kandahar city. She knew it could determine the fate of Afghanistan's second-largest city, which has been increasingly vulnerable to attack from a heavily armed gang of insurgents to the west.

The story at The Toronto Globe and Mail

So my question is, what do you think of women in combat? I don't mean support troops, which is a valuable function which women perform, but women actually out in the fight? Captain Goddard was an FO--a forward observer, one of the most dangerous jobs an officer can perform.

What are your thoughts?

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From a pure equality standpoint, if a woman wants to be a part of a combat group, then I think she should be able to. From a decidedly male old-fashioned protect the ladies standpoint, I personally would just as soon not have them assigned to combat groups. It just seems wrong to me. But then, I still open doors when a lady is approaching. Just my good upbringing I guess.

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I still open doors for people who approach as i'm entering a building, too. I'm rather ambivalent about this--i agree that it goes against the grain of traditional views of women to have them on the firing line. But i also think this is a natural and just result of the desire of women to participate fully in public life, which i consider a reasonable demand.

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I agree it is a reasonable demand Set. And while I would just as soon not see it, I would fully back any woman who had her heart set on being in a combat unit.

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If a women meets ALL the qualifications and achieves the minimum standards, I see no reason to discriminate.

However, standards and qualifications must not be lowered for women. That is wrong.

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There was a discussion of this with a Lieutenant Colonel on the CBC this morning. She pointed out that only some of the infantry jobs, and some of the artillery jobs, require the kind of upper body strength which women do not usually have. But she also pointed out the Captain Goddard was not physically disqualified for her job, nor would a woman be disqualified as a pilot. I wonder if Americans remember the Major in the 101st Airborne Division who was killed when her helicopter crashed during Desert Storm. I don't believe that was a result of hostile action, though.

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I was incorrect--Major Cayton was assigned to an aviation battalion in the 24th Division, although i believe they were providing support for the advance of the 101st and the French brigade. It was haunting, because i'd seen her interviewed on television just a few days before.

The "In Memory--Desert Storm" page lists all the women who died in Desert storm, including a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point.

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One only has to remember the heroism of the women in Stalin's army to realize that they belong in combat

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The "They gave their lives" page lists women who died in all of America's conflicts since the Civil War. I could not say if it is comprehensive. It lists women who have died in Iraq.

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That's a good point, Pan. Many were pilots, and many more drove armored vehicles, because being smaller, they more easily fit into the driver's seat, and it was not considered a physically strenuous task beyond their capacity. I saw on televison once the interview of a woman who had driven an armored personnel carrier at Stalingrad, and later, at Kursk. It was a sobering account.

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In the military, promotion frequently depends on combat experience.

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This is a link to Soviet Women Pilots in the Great Patriotic War, which is what the Soviets called the Second World War.

Below are pictured three Soviet pilots. The woman on the left, and the one in the center were both aces, having shot down, respectively, 12 German planes, and 11 German planes.

http://pratt.edu/~rsilva/images/corillo2.jpg

At that page is a link to The Night Witches, harrassment bombers who flew low, slow, bi-planes to bomb German rear areas.

And, another excellent page on Soviet female pilots in that war.

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The Night Witches flew more than 500 missions. As you will learn at the last listed page, these women:

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/ryabova_popova_TL_250.jpg

. . . Katya Ryabova and Nadya Popova, flew 18 missions against the Germans in a single night.

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Without powered steering, yet.

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those am some bad ass bitches...errr...I mean witches

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Lots of women die in wars anyway.

We might as well get paid for it.

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I have no issue with women in infantry positions. If they want to do the job then they should be allowed as long as they meet the standards of the military. I have known some women in the military since I have been in that were more bad ass then some guys I knew and could do the job.

Speaking of Kandahar you forget to mention the Aussies who are here. They are my favorite to work with. They are the nicest foreign army here. I don't really like working with the Canadians because they are quite rude to just about everyone. They cut in the chow hall lines and don't think twice to just be rude. The Dutch keep to themselves and the Romanians will try to by just about anything they can, including the bike I ride while I'm sitting on it. It is quite the motley crew here.

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Glad to see you post again Baldimo, and relieved you're safe and sound.

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Baldimo wrote:

It is quite the motley crew here.

That sounds like my father's discription of the Alied army in Italy during WWII.

Keep safe Baldimo

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I believe they should be allowed to hold any of the positions men can.
The only concern I have, and I'm sure I'm not unique in this respect, is that should a women be a POW, a whole new game of torture can be played against them...one that men don't generally play toward men.

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CAPTAIN GODDARD DIES IN AFGHANISTAN

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