Question for vegetarians

cjhsa wrote:

Do you really think a chicken born in an egg factory dreams of warm nights on a little farm in Mexico?

No, but I know anybody'd be suffering if they spent their entire life barely able to move. I don't need to know what you dream about to know you'd prefer not to be, say, chained up Gus's cellar for the rest of your life.

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When you start giving animals rights M, then you can wind up in court being sued by your chicken kiev.

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I live with a vegan.
As Phoenix said, vegetarians all have different diet rules they follow.
So , unfortunately there is no REAL answer as to WHY people wont eat an egg, or who came first the chicken or the egg.. hhehe

BUT-
my point is that
My mil is vegan for what she calls animal rights reasons. But when you get to the meat of her argument, it is simply a stand against 'the man'.

The facilities that house and grow these animals for consumption use growth hormones, lock them in small cages, feed them ( in the case of mad cow) red meat when they would normally only eat grains.
They give them a less then natural diet, pump them with drugs to keep them alive, then boil them in hot water while they are still breathing , just to get them to your grocery store.

Chickens, cows, pigs, turkeys, ducks, etc.. are all treated like this for mass production.

THAT is the whole point of the vegan stand for most.

From that stand point, they also roll in health reasons.
Wich, when you realize what your meat contains, ( anti biotics, growth hormones, infections, feces..etc) they are right on the money when it comes to those concerns.

My perceived down side to veganism is that , we as humans have evolved for THOUSANDS of years , requiring animal protein to maintain our health. And they think that in one generation of time, we can live healthy lives with out it?

ppbbtthh..

but , thats my own soap box.

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Animal rights - thhhhbbbbbbbbbbbbttttttttttttttt.

You give them rights and an AR can take you to court on behalf of your dinner.

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There are other good reasons, too, Soz. BSE, or "mad cow disease" results from feed-lot livestock being given a feed which uses in part the ground up portions of slaughtered livestock which cannot be otherwise commercially used.

A lady i knew once kept French hens. The eggs her hens produced ran a gamut from pale green to dark olive. She sold them to a local "health food store" for outrageous amounts. The customers at the store ooed and ahed over the eggs because of the color of the shell. They paid large money for brown eggs, too. But all ordinary hens produce brown eggs, at least occasionally--the producers just separate them and sell them to industry that uses hens eggs because most people expect their eggs to be white. Brown eggs are no different than white eggs in terms of content. This ladies French hens produced green eggs which would never have been graded as large. They reached the size of Grade A mediums at most. Yet they were sold at the "health food store" at about three times the price of a dozen Grade A large eggs at the supermarket. People are goofy.

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the egg came first with the chicken inside it.... so really they came together....

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cyphercat wrote:

I don't eat eggs just 'cause of the conditions the chicken that laid it was in.

What conditions was the chicken in?

If I was an egg, I definitely wouldn't want to be laid by a drunk abusive chicken.

I just wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

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sozobe wrote:

The conditions thing makes sense.

I usually buy organic eggs -- though a recent article in the New Yorker about "Big Organic" has me wondering how much of a difference that actually makes.

Michael Pollan has some interesting stuff to say on this whole issue. While I have no particular compunctions about eating meat, I would much rather eat the meat of a cow raised on a small family farm, grazing on grass, not loaded up with antibiotics, for reasons of both principle and health.

Same here. It's been a very long time since I've eaten eggs from a small little coup outside, but I'm told there is a big difference in taste as the few chickens outside produce much better tasting eggs, but I'm sure the feed has something to do with that as well.
There's a place not far from here that raises organic cattle and since I don't eat very much meat, I'd like to try some of that.
There are other small farmers who feed organic in the area, but I don't care for the taste of the meat.

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cjhsa wrote:

When you start giving animals rights M, then you can wind up in court being sued by your chicken kiev.

That has to be one of the most absurd things I ever heard, CJ Rolling Eyes

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Some years ago, I did "dabble" in vegetarianism. It was not for any loftier reason, but that I thought that it would be better for my health.

Come to think of it, I did feel pretty good on that diet. After awhile though, I had this tremendous craving for a juicy cheeseburger, so that was the end of that. Thinking about it, I don't think that I would ever switch to vegetarianism again, but I might cut down my meat consumption.

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Montana wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
When you start giving animals rights M, then you can wind up in court being sued by your chicken kiev.

That has to be one of the most absurd things I ever heard, CJ

But it isn't. Read my second post. AR's are what is absurd.

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Chai Tea wrote:

cyphercat wrote:
I don't eat eggs just 'cause of the conditions the chicken that laid it was in.

What conditions was the chicken in?

If I was an egg, I definitely wouldn't want to be laid by a drunk abusive chicken.

I just wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

A friend of mine worked in a "health food store" after he graduated from the University of Illinois with a degree in animal science. They didn't like him much, but he was so damned useful, the couldn't bear to part with him. (He eventually got "a real job" in his field.) One day, this woman comes up to him to ask him if the eggs she had in her hand were laid by free range chickens. His reply, as he told it to me, ran something like this:

"No lady, those eggs were laid by a hen who was kept in a 9 by 9 by 9 cage in a room with three thousand other hens. She was given feed which made her ovulate more frequently, the the lights were turned off an on on an accelerated schedule to speed up egg production. Her beak was burned of by cauterization so that she wouldn't try to peck the other hens. When she got old and her egg production slowed down, they slaughtered her, and she was cut up for meat to go into Campbell's chicken noodle soup."

He said he got chewed out by the manager, but there were otherwise no consequences. He had some hilarious stories to tell about them boys and girls.

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That's what I did. I cut way way down on my meat consumption and it's both for heath reasons and animal issues.
That's why I'd like to have a few chickens. This way, the chickens are treated as good as a chicken can be treated and they happily supply me with the freshest eggs you can get.

Chickens are happy, I'm happy and all's good :-D

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Quote:

I usually buy organic eggs -- though a recent article in the New Yorker about "Big Organic" has me wondering how much of a difference that actually makes

Nothing at all

Almost everything is 'organic' in nature. All the way down to eggs.
Organic , if it is enforced for a chicken coop, it means that the feed the chickens get is organically grown .
This does not ensure that they have a "proper " diet. And they could very well be living off of america's good ole corn feed. Rolling Eyes

America rolls in corn and beef. but. thats another thread all together.

Feeding a chicken ONLY corn, no matter if it is organic or not, does not provide them with enough nutrients to survive in a normal fashion.

There is also a sales point of ' natural eggs'.
Welll.... DUH.. every time I see that advertisement I just about die laughing.
Eggs happen naturally. From a hens body
so how can you have UN-natural eggs??

If you want eggs, as close as possible to what they would taste like from your own back yard, you gotta get the big money eggs.
Organic- free range eggs.
Yeah.. the ones that are a frick-in FORTUNE for 12 of em.

But.. I will say this.
There is a HUGE difference in taste, size, texture and all around appearance.

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cjhsa wrote:

Animal rights - thhhhbbbbbbbbbbbbttttttttttttttt.

You give them rights and an AR can take you to court on behalf of your dinner.

boy I couldnt agree more.

I find it strange,
those who are MORE concerned with animal rights
are LESS concerned with human rights

They will tie themselves to a tree for days to save that one tree
yet never donate .05 cents to the rape crisis shelter.

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Phoenix, E.G. had been a vegetarian for about a decade when I met him -- I respected that but accidentally corrupted him. (It was a Wisconsin beer brat that tempted him over to the dark side, I think.)

Anyway, we're semi-demi-hemi vegetarians in that we don't eat that much meat -- not nothing, by any means, but probably far less than is average. When he cooks he'll often put together something like potatoes and beans and a salad.

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Chai Tea wrote:

cyphercat wrote:
I don't eat eggs just 'cause of the conditions the chicken that laid it was in.

What conditions was the chicken in?

If I was an egg, I definitely wouldn't want to be laid by a drunk abusive chicken.

I just wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

<snork> You're hilarious.... Laughing

I had to read it twice before I even completely got it....<sigh>

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sozobe wrote:

Anyway, we're semi-demi-hemi vegetarians in that we don't eat that much meat -- not nothing, by any means, but probably far less than is average. When he cooks he'll often put together something like potatoes and beans and a salad.

HA!
thats our house almost exactly.

Tofu, beans , rice, veggies, grains..
and once a week we have a meat based meal with random pieces of 'animal' products during the week.
Maybe an egg for breakfast

or cheese on a salad..

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cjhsa wrote:

Montana wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
When you start giving animals rights M, then you can wind up in court being sued by your chicken kiev.

That has to be one of the most absurd things I ever heard, CJ

But it isn't. Read my second post. AR's are what is absurd.

Animals have feelings too! Try for a second, if you could to imagine living your life in the conditions they live theirs.

It's pretty f@ckin sad, if you ask me!

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shewolfnm wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
Animal rights - thhhhbbbbbbbbbbbbttttttttttttttt.

You give them rights and an AR can take you to court on behalf of your dinner.

boy I couldnt agree more.

I find it strange,
those who are MORE concerned with animal rights
are LESS concerned with human rights

They will tie themselves to a tree for days to save that one tree
yet never donate .05 cents to the rape crisis shelter.

What's wrong with being concerned with all of the above?

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Question for vegetarians

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