7
   

Is Canada more Liberal (ideologically) than the US?

 
 
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 09:34 am
@Setanta,
Set, We are more liberal. While the conservative party may rule, they are NOT the republicans, comparing them is akin to apples and oranges. All though, I will concede they're not that "laid back", at least under the Harper regime.
The "liberal" party has been either been Canada's government or the leaders of the opposition since confederation. Our third largest national political party, the NDP is a "socialist" party, (the bloc don't count because they represent one province only, and in my mind should be considered traitors and not receive federal funding - another issue entirely). However, they do tax the province like the NDP would.
Provincially, the NDP have currently form the government in Manitoba and Nova Scotia and have previously formed governments in British Columbia, Ontario, and Saskatchewan, and the Yukon and/or have been the leader of the opposition in several others at one time or the other.
We have not only embraced civil rights, but taken them a step forward, we have universal gay marriage, we don't have a don't ask don't tell policy in the military.
Most of our healthcare initiatives were initially formed from socialist/liberal policies.
We have more liberal drug policies. Trudeau inhaled...
We have more liberal work regulations and more paid holidays than the US employees as well.
We pay higher taxes per person, but we also have more social programs and our social infrastructure is better for it.
Our liquor laws are softer too, in two provinces 18 years olds can drink, in the rest you must be 19, not 21.
About the only thing more liberal in the USA is gun laws, ours are far stricter.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:53 am
Your Liberal Party is not liberal by any reasonable definition; as The Girl always says, just because they're called Liberals, doesn't mean that they are liberal. I agree the Tories aren't the same as the Republicans--they're far more plutocratic.

You think your way, and i'll think mine.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:56 am
By the way, you've got gay marriage and other "liberal" policies because of the courts, not because of the political parties.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:07 am
@Setanta,
We've got a lot of good "liberal" policies because of the influence of the CCF and the NDP. Thank the lord for Tommy Douglas. He changed Canada.

If the Liberal Party has the sense to boot Iggy and head toward Bob Rae or Gerald Kennedy for leader, there is an opportunity for the party to move back toward its slightly left of (American) centre position.

The benefit of several minority governments is that the Conservatives/Reform gang has had to take into account the requests of the NDP as well as the Bloc (which I think has found an effective, practical spot slightly left of centre).

Overall, I do agree with most of Ceili's points.

I'm definitely glad that this is where hamburgboy and mrs. hamburger landed.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:15 am
You've got a "liberal" social situation in Canada thanks to PET/Chrétien--not because "liberalism" is in the Canadian tradition. I agree with you that Tommy Douglas and the NDP are partially responsible, too. But if it had not been for Tommy Douglas, the CCF would have gotten nowhere--and the Tories successfully smeared the CCF as "commies," which is exactly why the NDP was formed. Your nation has been fortunate in Douglas, and the PET/Chrétien era--otherwise, your history shows a far more authoritarian and plutocratic tradition than is the case with the United States. Remember what happened in the 1830s with the uprisings? That was characteristic of Canadian history.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:35 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Remember what happened in the 1830s with the uprisings? That was characteristic of Canadian history.


Times have changed.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 12:46 pm
@Setanta,
That was my point in a round about way, just cause they call themselves something doesn't make it so.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 12:47 pm
@ehBeth,
Not that much--even PET declared martial law.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 12:48 pm
@Setanta,
Didn't say that it was because of political parties, but it still makes us a wee bit more "liberal", I'd say.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 12:52 pm
@Ceili,
Perhaps . . . but you have to ignore a lot--like the HST, like the Tories trying to torpedo the long gun registry. A lot of your liberalism is deeply resented by the Tories, and if they could change it, they would.
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:06 pm
@Setanta,
Liberalism has been the tradition since I was born. The Trudeau/Chrétien era was a big chunk of my life. I wasn't around in 1830 and neither was the "Canadian" nation, we'd have to wait another 37 years for it to be so. American's had the tradition of being a slave nation, a characteristic if you will, but I don't think that's a relative point either.
Thank god for Tommy Douglas alright, he not only changed Canada's view of the working stiff, but his ideas spread and were copied by many countries. Regardless of our Authoritarian past, we've evolved, and today we are a nation that is proud of these liberal tendencies.

0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:12 pm
@Setanta,
I agree, but HST is, regardless of who hates it or not it is a continuation of high taxes to pay for many of our beloved social programs. No doubt the Tories would love to scrap it all, but they'd face another fiasco like the past Mulroney/Campbell government did.
I live in the only province without a sales tax or healthcare premiums, and we've had a conservative government my entire life. So... again, they may call themselves conservative, but... they don't hold a match to the republicans.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:24 pm
About the only significant difference i see between the Tories and the Republicans is that the Tories are willing to tax. Mulroney brought in the GST, and although Harper has reduced the rate, he didn't scrap it, and the HST gives the Feds the opportunity to tax things they've never taxed, and the provinces the opportunity to tax things they've never taxed. I don't deny that there are differences between the United States and Canada, but i don't see Canada as ideologically more liberal. Look at your Senate--the members are appointed, which is just what the Brits did with the governors' councils in America before the United States existed, and Canada long after. Look what the Senate is willing to do now that Harrper has packed it. Wasn't Harper supposed to make the Senate elective? Naw . . . musta been someone else.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:33 pm
@Setanta,
I agree again. Harper's party love to tax. But the HST is a provincial matter and look what it did to the liberals in BC. Mind you, they call themselves Liberals but are definitely conservative.
As for the senate, find me a canadian who'll defend it. Useless. But Harper talks out of both side of his face. I can't stand the man. I think he's taken us all for a ride with his broken promises and his autocratic nature. Believe me, I have never voted Conservative.
I believe Alberta is the only province to have voted for a Senator. Not that it did us any good.
I agree with Beth, I really wish the Liberals would put Gerald Kennedy in the drivers seat.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:40 pm
Well, the Liberals sure need some true leadership--Ignatieff is only out for himself, and i suspect that nobody trusts him.
0 Replies
 
noinipo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2011 06:12 pm
The present Canadian Prime Minister has been called a dictator by many journalists. He is still ahead in the polls.
.
Ken Dryden would make a good Liberal leader.
0 Replies
 
 

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