Europe A2k Meeting, 2007 - LOCATION POLL

Thanks for the SkyEurope link, dag.

Well, I wouldn't be so fast to conclude that everyone wants to go to Barcelona. In a poll like the one on this thread, no one can express their second or third or fourth preferences. We run the risk, therefore, of ending up with Arrow's Paradox, where the most popular choice is the one that doesn't get the most votes. For instance, if those who voted for London and Munich would have listed Vienna as their second choice, then more people would prefer to go to Vienna than to Barcelona.

Before relying on the poll, therefore, the second-order preferences of those who did not vote for Barcelona should be gauged. For instance, if I were to rank order my preferences for an A2K gathering in Europe, I would put them in this order:

1. Vienna 2. London 3. Munich 4. Paris

I wouldn't even list Barcelona, since there are no A2Kers who live there. If Vienna weren't an option, then, I still wouldn't vote for Barcelona -- not that I have anything against Barcelona, just as I have nothing against Rome or Stockholm or Prague (all cities that I would rather go to than Barcelona, but which also don't have any native A2Kers), it's just that I put a good deal of importance on the value of having some local knowledge available. My preferences, however, aren't reflected in the poll, just as no one else's are either.

So, in other words, just because Barcelona has the most votes doesn't necessarily mean it's the most popular choice.

That's an excellent idea, Joe. Here are my preferences:

1. Vienna 2. Rome 3. Paris 4. London.

I see the Wolf Hole Arizona is not on anyones' list. Sad that.

Wolf Hole, AZ is in Europe? Let's put it right on!

Ditto to Thomas, only changing the first two of his selection:

1. Rome 2. Vienna 3. Paris 4. London.

(This especially, since there A2K'ers at all these places - Barcelona would be fine for a visit, without any doubts at all.)

Uh, come to think of it, do we have locals in Rome? If not, scratch itfrom my list.

We have - at least living close to it (otherwise it wouldn't be that list of me :wink: ).

Thanks Walter. In that case my list remains unchanged.

I have a question to those who voted for a city without local A2Kers: What is your plan for dealing with this problem? Majority vote is a nice tool for making decisions, but inconvenient realities don't go away just because the majority decided to ignore them. Therefore, before I accept the majority's vote as binding, I'd like to hear some persuasive arguments for one or both of the following propositions:

(a) The lack of local A2K members is not a problem.
(b) The lack of local A2K members can be worked around as follows: (insert your workaround here.)

To repeat: "The majority has decided" is not a persuasive argument in this context. Joe, Walter, Sozobe, I, and others are pointing out a problem with the reality about cities and meetups -- a reality we don't get to vote on.

Just talking about some facts of the last meetings I attended:
- in Chicago, we would have met at an address with no pizzeria ... if Joe hadn't known (knew how to find) the next (= not too much to walk) one,
- all places we vivited in Chcago were on our list due to the advice of the locals (with additional info, elsewhere not to be found).

- at my place, we change to chnage the complete planned program for five days a couple of time completely due to heaviest rain.


I won't insist on this, though. Btw, how many of the Barcelona fans - besides perhaps Francis - speak Catalan ?

I would add that the same is true for London -- maybe not for the hotels, but certainly for the pub Gautam suggested, and for the restaurant where Clary's son works.

Definately at was true for previous "one-and a-half" gatherings in London, I've attended, as well. :wink:

(gautam and kitchenpete, asided by Steve and McTag did the excellent job then.)

Thanks, I guess we made our point, Walter. Now, let's hear it from the "don't worry be happy" side:


What's your plaahan???

Vienna catching up with Barcelona. When does this poll close? Is the decision binding?

No idea when it closes. (I suppose, osso has.)

I DO hope it is "binding" - why else do we discuss it?

Binding? on who? in what way?

When I look at the poll numbers, I simply see an indicator of where some people think they'd like to go.

If the final top vote getter is someplace I'm not interested in, I'm not going there just because it got a lot of votes. I'll still go one or other of the places I'm interested in.

If the top vote getter is someplace in my top 3 or 4 (but not what I voted for), I'll watch the ongoing planning thread and consider if it'll work with my interests/plans.

If not, I'd start a thread [if someone else doesn't beat me to it] about a possible trip to my preferred vacation target, gathering information, considering options - and being open to meeting other A2K'rs if they're interested in being in the same zone at the same time.

My 2 canajun cents :wink:

I suggest a runoff for top vote-getters.

Dys and Diane have indicated a planned trip to Barcelona regardless of where the A2K meet ends up being held. Given certain restrictions they have indicated they are unable to visit other cities.

I would 1) love to see Barcelona, 2) love to meet Dys and Diane, 3) love to gather with any other A2K folks who might be in the vicinity at the same time, and 4) need to consider dates, locations, and expenses of any additional travel.

I am not saying I wouldn't consider other areas of Europe but, as I mentioned at our last gathering, traveling overseas has very limited appeal to me. There are few places in Europe that would entice me to make the trip, Barcelona happens to be one of them. Not that I don't love all you people dearly but I would need to combine people and place before I would include myself as a 'yes'. My aversion to overseas travel is precisely the reason I sent Mr B on my daughter's European orchestra tour this spring. He enjoyed Prague to the point of wanting me to make a return visit with him sometime. For his benefit I have added Prague as a (distant) second choice.

During the Chicago meet there was already talk of Barcelona in 2007. Does anyone know where that originated?

I agree there are advantages to having a local member participating, or at least someone familiar with the sights of the area. It isn't my highest priority or even a low priority. There are probably people who are traveling with their families and the amount of time spent together in A2K 'sanctioned' events might be minimal. I haven't given any consideration as to whether I would be bringing my girls along. If I do then I imagine I would be spending most of my time with them and cutting out for one or two meet-ups. If I don't bring them then Mr B and I would join in more with what the rest of the A2Kers are doing. It will come down to a combination of time, place, and finances as to whether we would be zero, two, or four.

If I remember well, it started here

Read along...