1
   

Climate Change must be tackled NOW

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 11:38 am
Safety record on energy production; taken from the link I posted earlier:
Comparison of accident statistics in primary energy production.
(Electricity generation accounts for about 40% of total primary energy).
Fuel Immediate fatalities 1970-92 Who? Normalised to deaths per TWy* electricity

Coal 6400 workers 342
Natural gas 1200 workers & public 85
Hydro 4000 public 883
Nuclear 31 workers 8
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 06:52 pm
Scrat

Chernobyl cloud - close to home

Chernobyl child

Abandoned Chernobyl children

Igor

26.04.2002 A New Generation of Chernobyl Victims

Now you tell me this will never happen again.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 08:31 pm
One thing is for sure; it sure is damn hot in Silicon Valley today. San Jose hit a new record, I think at 102. c.i.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 08:46 pm
A very tactical swing, cicerone. No more witty links on the safety of nuclear energy?

Anyway, it's the same here in Europe. The grass in parks is scorched to the root. Dry patches everywhere. Skin burns tremendously fast. Never seen this before...

Holes in the protective ozon layer above the Northern hemisphere are the cause, I assume. Combined with increased solar activity, that's a killer effect.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 10:28 pm
Increased solar activity? We may be on to something here.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 10:37 pm
I guess the world is gonna burn to death. c.i.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 03:12 am
Scandinavia, Greenland and Siberia reached an unprecedented 45% in ozone layer depletion in 1996. Everyone in the Northern hemisphere is now just as much affected by UV radiation as if you'd live on Antarctica. We're living the full effects of our pollution as we speak.
If the Montreal treaty is respected, the ozone layer should gently restore itself from 2050 on. That is, if current CFK-producing countries stop their habits. China promised to stop producing the ozon-eating CFK's soon. But they're still in use throughout the Third World.

I didn't just become an environmental activist out of boredom, you know...
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 02:46 pm
wolf wrote:
Scandinavia, Greenland and Siberia reached an unprecedented 45% in ozone layer depletion in 1996. Everyone in the Northern hemisphere is now just as much affected by UV radiation as if you'd live on Antarctica. We're living the full effects of our pollution as we speak.
If the Montreal treaty is respected, the ozone layer should gently restore itself from 2050 on. That is, if current CFK-producing countries stop their habits. China promised to stop producing the ozon-eating CFK's soon. But they're still in use throughout the Third World.

I didn't just become an environmental activist out of boredom, you know...


1996 is not now. This is 2003.

The amount of incident UV radiation is a function of the latitude of the location, the season (position of the earth relative to the sun), and the amount of UV locally absorbed in the upper atmosphere. It is simply not true, now or ever, that "Everyone in the northern hemisphere is now just as much affected by UV ..."

Environmental activists evidently don't have to bother with facts.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 03:07 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Environmental activists evidently don't have to bother with facts.

True, but it's not out of boredom that they ignore them. Cool
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 03:08 pm
George, I sensed your usual cynical and reactionary rebuttal coming from miles away. You fell right into the trap.

1. Where there is ozone depletion, there is increased exposure to UV radiation.
2. There is ozone depletion above the Northern Hemisphere, where you and I live.
3. Therefore, we are exposed to UV radiation. The locality, type and severity of the ozon holes in the stratosphere are irrelevant -- you are exposed to UV radiation due to ozone depletion where you are now, just as much as if you would be exposed typing your tasteless propaganda on the South Pole.

UV is UV. And it has a killer frequency.
0 Replies
 
wolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 04:31 pm
Quote:

Proposing to solve a global threat by expanding the use of an even deadlier technology can hardly be considered responsible environmental stewardship. WISE summarised some of the arguments against a nuclear solution to climate change in their report for WWF, 'Climate Change and Nuclear Power' (Schneider, 2000):

-investments into nuclear power projects drain badly-needed funds from energy efficiency programs, most of which have a far lower specific greenhouse gas abatement cost than nuclear energy;
-nuclear power projects have a variety of negative systemic impacts including: the need for inefficient large grid systems; the need for highly-qualified staff; and blocking innovation in the supply and demand sectors, as well as in the development of efficient small-scale plant;
-countries with nuclear power are among the highest carbon dioxide (CO2) emitters in the world because large-scale power plants tend to boost electricity consumption - and not only of nuclear origin - rather than improvements in efficiency;
-nuclear energy only produces electricity, but modern societies need a significant share of their energy in the form of heat (and cold). Under these circumstances, nuclear power loses its greenhouse gas emission advantage over natural gas-fired cogeneration plant and has significantly higher emissions than biogas cogeneration plants;
-nuclear power remains particularly dangerous and difficult to control as last year's accident at Tokaimura, Japan, has once again illustrated. The radioactive waste problem remains unsolved and nuclear proliferation is one of the greatest threats to international peace.

In conclusion, an efficient greenhouse gas abatement strategy will be based on energy efficiency and not on the use of nuclear power.



http://www.anawa.org.au/greenhouse/
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 05:11 pm
wolf wrote:
There is more to the so-called myth of the nuclear saviors:

FYI: When you call something a "so-called myth" you are in fact implying that it is not a myth, and therefor true. (It may also be a sign that you are arguing out of your depth.) :wink:
0 Replies
 
wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 01:46 am
It's rather the kind of shallow reply you just gave me that's out of depth, my friend. It'd be more mature on your behalf to show any interest in the findings I just gave you.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 11:01 am
Wolf,

It is you who are profoundly out of your depth. The ability to find links and quotes supporting your views does not constitute an effective argument in support of them, any more than it indicates understanding of the issues on your part. It is the ability to think, to distinguish fact from opinion, and to arrive at logical conclusions that leads one to the truth. In such a quest, you appear to be quite poorly equipped.

There was no trap in your absurd assertion that the whole Northern hemisphere is as exposed to UV as is the Antarctic. UV is a component of sunlight, and the intensity of sunlight, you may have noticed, varies with the latitude and the season. This should not be an excessively difficult concept even for an environmental activist.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 11:16 am
About ten years ago, I was prevy to sit in on a session of Parliament in London when they considered nuclear power. They approved nuclear power for their country, but I'm not aware of how many they have constructed, if any, subsequent to that approval. Anybody know? c.i.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 12:50 pm
cicerone,

Ten years ago there was an ongoing program to replace some very early gass cooled reactors with modern designs using mixed oxide fuel from their reprocessing facilities. Likely they were completed, but I'm not aware of any new starts since then.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 12:55 pm
Scrat, Do you mean to say that the myths in the bible are all true? c.i.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 12:59 pm
I also read someplace that the discharge from a nuclear power plant in the UK was contaminating the waters for fish and other food products. c.i.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 01:15 pm
Cicerone,

I think you are referring to the "Windscale" incident which occurred in the late '50s at the BNFL facility at Sellafield on the Irish Sea. It was one of the accidents cited on a link that either you or Wolf posted. Major airborne discharge, but no fatalities.

I believe the greatest single industrial disaster was the incident at the Union Carbide plant in Bophal India. Approximately 10,000 people were killed, and I believe the accident was later found to be the result of sabotage caused by a disgruntled employee.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 01:21 pm
These links, c.i.,
EU may force nuclear reactor shutdowns

Anger over fish radiation find
may give some answers to your queations.
0 Replies
 
 

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