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Climate Change must be tackled NOW

 
 
wolf
 
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 01:36 pm
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/MediaAlerts/2003/2003032712826.html

If we wait, it' ll be too late. Oil dependent economies are digging our graves. CO2 emissions must be stopped NOW.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 22,518 • Replies: 575
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 01:45 pm
There is research going on now to try to knock out at least 50% of the CO2 by collecting the CO2 at point sources, compress it to a liquid and pump it underground where it will be contained as a chemical change or in other types of subsurface conditions that are able to sequester it for at least 500 yeARS. This can be done more easily than quickly scrubbing the emissions.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 06:50 pm
Got any links for that, mate?
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 08:19 pm
All that does is transfer the problem from the atmosphere to the ground water.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 08:21 pm
Butterfly - not neccessarily. But, the concept hasn't been fine-tuned.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 08:23 pm
only a little related...:
http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/hilites/confinfo/energy/ppt/t9shilts.htm
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2003 09:13 pm
The Cat In the Hat Comes Back

Take the problem and wipe it with a towel.
Take the dirty towel and clean it on your shoe.
Take your shoe and wash it in the tub.
Wipe the tub with a pair of jeans.
Throw the jeans out in the yard.
Clean the yard with a rake.
Take the rake into the kitchen and scrub it with ...


This is old knowledge folks... that every kindergarten kid reads about! What should we do with our politics and our fancy systems to bring them a little common sense?

I'm sending the President of Exxon a tall, striped Dr. Suess hat.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2003 01:27 pm
Re: Climate Change must be tackled NOW
wolf wrote:
If we wait, it' ll be too late. Oil dependent economies are digging our graves. CO2 emissions must be stopped NOW.

I'm wondering whether you may have missed this phrase at the beginning of their prediction:
Quote:
If climate sensitivity is at the high end of the range...
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2003 01:41 pm
Didn't we discuss something like this before??
I'm trying to remember something about the planet putting more C02 and other stuff than mankind? Anyone remember that?
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2003 01:16 am
Oh, COW FARTS!
I mean ... Don't have a cow, man. Jeez!





----------
PS -- And yes, I have references for the above comments. So there!

"If we really want to do something about rising temperature levels on Earth maybe we should spend more time thinking about flatulent dairy cows. Afterall, agriculture does produce more greenhouse gas emissions than transport"
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/telegraph/stories/s483764.htm


"animal methane does present a definite threat to the biota. It's believed 18 percent of the greenhouse effect is caused by methane, putting it second on the list of offending gases behind carbon dioxide"
[...]
atmospheric methane has been increasing at the alarming rate of 1 percent a year, and something's got to be causing it. The world cattle population is thought to have increased in the last decade...
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_176.html
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2003 05:25 am
Animals, plants and rocks have released CO2 since the prehistoric dawn, but never has the planet risen in temperature on a timescale of one measly century. Polar caps are melting - this is a fact. This is the most stringent reason to oppose the oil lobbies and their political administrators: they are factually endangering the well-being of our children by planning to release 2,6% of CO2 more annually.

Let's not pretend to be above ancient planetary laws, nor to be immune to extinction, just because we can write and speak and perform political and cultural acts. This planet is still much, much older than us, and will reject any wrongdoings on its ecological balance. Let's be wise and stop this oil consumption, before it does us all in.

http://www.nrdc.org/
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2003 12:16 pm
wolf wrote:
Animals, plants and rocks have released CO2 since the prehistoric dawn, but never has the planet risen in temperature on a timescale of one measly century. Polar caps are melting - this is a fact.

What reading I have done on this issue indicates quite clearly that any currently measured temperature change remains well within the range of "natural" change exhibited in the climate record.

As to "polar caps" melting... I am aware that some ice sheets in Antarctica have been shrinking for years, while others have been growing at a similar pace. I would suggest that you are looking at an incomplete picture.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2003 01:19 pm
I Am Not So Sure
Attacking oil industries is considered being cool in certain circles, but I would not be too sure that current climatic changes derive exclusively from the human activities. The multimillennial climatic change cycles exist (for example, the both establishment of the Ice Age 16,000 years ago and its end that was characterized with sufficient warming of the planet), and they pertain rather to geophysics than to technologic activities of humans. I am unaware of underlying mechanism of these cycles (maybe, they have some correlation with solar activity), but serious changes took place many times in the past, when there were either no humans at all, or their usage of carbohydrate fuel was insufficient. Here is some interesting quote regarding climatic disturbances in the past that were followed by global warming so much intensive that managed to melt billions of cubic miles of ice (I shall not make here all the calculations of energy necessary for this, but I must just mention that specific heat of water is 4.2*10³ J/kg*K), specific density of ice is 900 kg/m³, and specific melting energy of ice I failed to find online, but it is relatively high value as well, if compared to another solid state substances.
Quote:
When have Ice Ages occurred?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many glacial advances and retreats have occurred during the last billion years of Earth history. These glaciations are not randomly distributed in time.Instead, they are concentrated into four time intervals. Large, important glaciations occurred during the late Proterozoic (between about800 and 600 million years ago), during the Pennsylvanian and Permian (between about 350 and 250 million years ago), and the late Neogene toQuaternary (the last 4 million years). Somewhat less extensive glaciations occurred during parts of the Ordovician and Silurian (between about 460 and 430 million years ago).
During each of these periods, many glacial advances and retreatsoccurred. For example, over 20 glacial advances and retreats have occurred during the last 2 million years.

If "ice age" is used to refer to long, generally cool, intervals during which glaciers advance and retreat, we are still in one today. Our modern climate represents a very short, warm period between glacial advances.

The main problem is that greenhouse effect has positive feedback: when the average temperature of air rises, the larger amounts of carbon dioxide are being released from the oceans and seas (this gas is normally present there in dissolved state), thus enhancing the processes that cause such a release, and oceanic yield exceeds this stemming from human activities.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2003 06:12 pm
Quote:
The main problem is that greenhouse effect has positive feedback: when the average temperature of air rises, the larger amounts of carbon dioxide are being released from the oceans and seas (this gas is normally present there in dissolved state), thus enhancing the processes that cause such a release, and oceanic yield exceeds this stemming from human activities.


Indeed. We are facing an environmental slingshot effect that, once gone off, can not be reset for at least a century. 40% of CO2 emissions comes from private transport, mainly from the USA. That means your oil-consuming cars are digging our graves a bit deeper every single day. It's true!

Climate change is already noticeable as we speak, but we ain't seen nothing yet. Please understand that climatic stability is the only thing that feeds us every day. Without it, agriculture becomes impossible. Y'all know how the inhabitants of the Easter Island killed themselves? Same thing is happening right now.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2003 06:19 pm
Hmm, I am afraid, you did not read all my posting: I tend to state that the problem is rather natural, pertaining to the long-period climate change cycles, than anthropogenic. By the way, I am not an American, and I do not own any car...
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2003 06:29 am
Global warming is without a shred of doubt caused by human industry and transport. Never has Earth's temperature risen on such short term. This planet's life support system is very fragile, and your hubristic kin is destroying it by acting on the belief that humans are above nature and can do whatever their arrogant minds tell them to do.

It's precisely people like you and the Bush dynasty that are sealing our fate. Learn to be part of this planet, not in control of it.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2003 08:24 am
Quote:
Never has the Earth's temperature risen on such short term.


Wolf, I agree with you on the need to control emissions and wish we'd joined the Kyoto Protocol, but the fact is we don't know if the Earth's temperature has ever risen on such short term. The measurements which would prove or disprove that have only been made for 150 years. As far as I know, there is no way to judge this over long geological periods based on scientific clues from carbon, rock or ice. If you know of something, like carbon-based testing, then I'd like to hear about it.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2003 09:07 am
Over the past 150 years, the majority of mountain glaciers monitored have been shrinking. Many glaciers at lower latitudes are now disappearing, and scientists predict that, under some plausible warming scenarios, the majority of glaciers will be gone by the year 2100. Parts of Canada, Alaska, Siberia, and the Antarctic have been experiencing warming well above the global average for the past few decades. This trend fits climate model predictions for a world with increasing levels of greenhouse gases.


Global warming early warming signs
Union of concerned scientists
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bobsmyth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2003 09:39 am
One of the chief combatants for balancing co2 is trees which take in co2 and release oxygen. One of the agencies working toward that end is the world wildlife fund which buys tracts of land in the Matto Grosso. One of the most positive signs for a turn around is the reforestation of the northeast here in America.
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2003 12:20 pm
Not bad...

The most encouraging novelty is the effective application of ZEV's: zero emission vehicles, cars such as the Honda FCX, running on fuel cells. 40% of global warming gasses are emitted by our private transport.

http://hondacorporate.com/fcx/overview.html
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