Help Daschle!

I'm still warmed by the actions of the Texas Dems and, perhaps foolishly, would like to hold the rest of the party to that standard. Daschle's position (I'm also remembering George Mitchell) is not really about making loud partisan noises, though one could hardly blame him if he did, given the flack he's had to take from the Houyhnhnms the Republicans are producing out of their stables so repetitively these days. It's awful (we know that here, don't we) to be surrounded by people of no known moral stature but lots of muscle and blab. Very reminiscent of the fat, corrupt Republicans at the turn of the last century. Plus ca change... So I don't expect Daschle to come out swinging, really, and think it's a miracle the guy has survived. Noticed how many Republicans have teamed up against their party? Daschle won't get credit -- and wouldn't, for political reasons, want it -- but his steadiness certainly helped to make that possible.

Oh, and those filibusters that the demos are so awesome at keeping held.... They are just a last ditch effort. Its obvious what little power they have to everyone. All they are is a thorn in the side.

I think the repubs could break it if they wanted to, but I think that they just want to give the demos something to be proud of... Since they don't have much in that department.

I guess you think the Republicans have something to be proud of? First prize in prevarication and corruption, perhaps?

gen - huh? You can't really think that if the repubs had a way to break the filibusters they wouldn't have? They can't, and that's why Orrin Hatch keeps yelling foul. And yes, this translates to some power.

What you don't seem to understand about the filibusters is that three months is a long time. And do the math - they need 60 votes out of 100, and they don't have them. The republicans hold more than 40 seats - so why can't they break the filibusters? Quiet Daschle has held it together so far. And those republicans have a lot to be proud of, renaming those two with questionable records. Yes sir - hats off to the republicans. Why, the reputation they're giving to our country is one to be proud of, yes sir!

Blinded by a desire to BELIEVE at any cost (cost to their country), Republicans have become what would be considered in less dangerous times kind of pathetic, limp. Does the Democratic leadership recognize this? Certainly the exceedingly close vote on the tax bill should give them a clue.

mj - If I am spoiling for anything it is a discussion of this issue. Sorry if that is a problem, though I do not see why it would be.

In general, if I state that I think X, and someone asks me why, I'm going to try to answer. I would not consider the question an attack, an insult or a trap.

But that's just me.

Okay, Scrat, what do you think about this issue?

You know, scrat, maybe some people don't WANT to handle the nuts.

Constant repetitive questioning indicates a loss of hearing, an inability to listen, and a willful disposition to go yah yah.

Most of us have passed into an adult stage of discussion, so do please try to move on.

Sorry, mj, I thought I was answering Tartarin's question.

mj didn't ever answer your question, because I have been waiting to see for myself her list of great stuff Daschle has done. The best she did was some vague meaningless "he held the Dems together". Glue could do the same, and it doesn't command a fat paycheck. How 'bout some post-war duct tape? What is holding together? Making sure they can find their way to the Senate floor and understand how to vote? Wow. Good job, Daschle! By all means, mount a grassroots organization for him!!! He's a keeper.

I am also getting tired of the "grow up" comment every time someone asks you something you can't answer. It is OLD. If you disagree, do it with facts or opinion--rather than empty, unprovoked personal insults.
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Constant repetitive questioning indicates a loss of hearing, an inability to listen, and a willful disposition to go yah yah.
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Or an inability on the part of the one questioned to give a straight answer.

I have been reading through this, and am sympathetic to what you're saying, mamajuana, but am actually rather ignorant of what Daschle has done, specifically, myself, and was in fact thinking of asking when Scrat did. So I waited. Now, I probably should know this already, but Daschle has not crossed my radar as being particularly wonderful. Not terrible, not wonderful. Republican smear tactics are very not-wonderful, and I agree completely they have used that on people who were undeserving.

But the specific issue here is "save Daschle because he's a good guy", no? So I'm not sure, truly, why the request to provide some more information of why he is a good guy is being met with such resistance.

Off to find out more about him.

Here's a start -- energy efficiency is good, though it looks like the bill has some flaws:

http://www.aceee.org/press/daschle.htm

Okay - there is no avoidance of something I never brought up. What I said was that he was quiet, capable, and smart, and the republicans were out to oust him, and we couldn't afford to lose him (to another puppet republican senator).

The questions of what wonderful things he had done were brought up by scrat and gen, to start with.

What his job is is Senate Minority Leader. In that role he is doing his job - which is to hold the democratic senators together as much as possible - as it was Trent Lott's job as leader, as it is Bill Frist's.

And that's a big job. If what you're looking for is the introduction of great bills, heroic speeches - that doesn't come into it. Daschle has a very specific job to do, and it is not to appear great, but to accomplish the feat of having a group of democratic senators stand together, to back them when possible, and, if you notice, that is what has been happening lately. The comments today are about the fact that there is a democratic group, not a disjointed party out there. And apparently some of the moderate republican senators are thinking things over. From all reports, Daschle knows how to wheel and deal, but he does it quietly and without bluster.

So no, I'm not here to give a list of whatever he has done or not done, presented or not presented. My topic is to save Daschle, and by that I mean to save him as a democratic senator, not to make a list of accomplishments.

I'm not sure anything as specific as the tasks of Senate Minority Leader are part of Scrat's vocabulary -- I hope he rushes to Google, researches, learns, and proves me wrong.

mamjuana, what I'm saying is that I'm a prime candidate to be convinced to save him -- I fire off letters and sign petitions for liberal causes all the time -- and I haven't had much to go on in this thread.

Your latest post provides more -- I'll keep looking on Google.

My main point is that I don't know scrat (as far as I know), and the way he was jumped on did not seem warranted to me. Gen, too. I am liberal, but I value having a conservative viewpoint here, otherwise things get really boring.

"Bush sucks!'
"Yup"
"That's for sure"
"Big time"
"Uh-huh"

....long pause...

"Um, Rove sucks!"
"Definitely!"

...etc.

I personally wince when "my" side bashes "their" side with what I see as undue provocation; I dunno if that will stop "them" from posting, but I personally like to see political exchanges kept as fact-based and ad hominem free as possible.

Good luck!!

Thank-you, Sozobe.

sozobe - I repeat what I said. Daschle is minority leader of the senate. In that role he has certain jobs. One of his major jobs is to keep the democrats united, to try to push forward in committee and group what they stand for, to try to get backing for their bills.

This is the same kind of job occupied by Hastert, Gephardt, and Frist. These are not leaders elected by the group to offer star roles in bill presentation or anything else. Their major role is to act as a unifying force for the particular party. And that is where Daschle has done a good job. It may not be a rip-roaring, headline-grabbing act, but he has accomplished some difficult tasks - and that filibuster is one of them. The duration and so-far success of it is not a common thing. Frist occupies the same role on the opposite side. Part of his job was to get these nominations through. Individual senators are free to bring up legislation; the leader's role is to coordinate and get them working smoothly as a team.

It's difficult to characterize separate acts when what is required is the mechanics of a group action. There will always be people saying "show me, show' when they don't really want to be shown anything, but have other aims in mind.

So this is my repeated take on Daschle. He is doing a required job well. Loud-voiced heroics are best left to others. A good leader knows what to pick and choose; knows about working with others; knows the importance of bringing disparate peoples and views together to make a whole; and many times knows the value of not being in the public limelight as a glory-seeker.

Now, if someone wants specifics, they can be found by doing a little minor research. This thread talks about Daschle's current job, his efficiency at it as a democratic senate leader, and the threat to him that exists because the opposite party wants him out so they can come in. For efficiency in the job, and what the job means, look at the Frist replacement of Lott. Same roles.

sozobe - I repeat what I said. Daschle is minority leader of the senate. In that role he has certain jobs. One of his major jobs is to keep the democrats united, to try to push forward in committee and group what they stand for, to try to get backing for their bills.

This is the same kind of job occupied by Hastert, Gephardt, and Frist. These are not leaders elected by the group to offer star roles in bill presentation or anything else. Their major role is to act as a unifying force for the particular party. And that is where Daschle has done a good job. It may not be a rip-roaring, headline-grabbing act, but he has accomplished some difficult tasks - and that filibuster is one of them. The duration and so-far success of it is not a common thing. Frist occupies the same role on the opposite side. Part of his job was to get these nominations through. Individual senators are free to bring up legislation; the leader's role is to coordinate and get them working smoothly as a team.

It's difficult to characterize separate acts when what is required is the mechanics of a group action. There will always be people saying "show me, show' when they don't really want to be shown anything, but have other aims in mind.

So this is my repeated take on Daschle. He is doing a required job well. Loud-voiced heroics are best left to others. A good leader knows what to pick and choose; knows about working with others; knows the importance of bringing disparate peoples and views together to make a whole; and many times knows the value of not being in the public limelight as a glory-seeker.

Now, if someone wants specifics, they can be found by doing a little minor research. This thread talks about Daschle's current job, his efficiency at it as a democratic senate leader, and the threat to him that exists because the opposite party wants him out so they can come in. For efficiency in the job, and what the job means, look at the Frist replacement of Lott. Same roles.