Omniscience

The word 'omniscience' implies knowledge by necessity. One who is omnipotent would not be subject to necessity.

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No, that is just a word game you are playing. Omniscience necessarily implies absolute knowledge, it does not imply that it is by necessity. A poor effort at best.

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neologist wrote:

The word 'omniscience' implies knowledge by necessity. One who is omnipotent would not be subject to necessity.

Nope.

Quote:

om·nis·cient (ŏm-nĭsh'ənt)
adj.

Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient deity; the omniscient narrator.
n.

1. One having total knowledge.
2. Omniscient God. Used with the.

http://www.answers.com/omniscience&r=67

Nothing about knowledge by necessity there.

Quote:

ne·ces·si·ty (nə-sĕs'ĭ-tē)
n., pl. -ties.

1.
1. The condition or quality of being necessary.
2. Something necessary: The necessities of life include food, clothing, and shelter.
2.
1. Something dictated by invariable physical laws.
2. The force exerted by circumstance.
3. The state or fact of being in need.
4. Pressing or urgent need, especially that arising from poverty.

http://www.answers.com/necessity&r=67

Nope. Omniscience definitely does not imply necessity.

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The word omniscience is often used to imply that God must have known in advance the outcome of his creation.

It is therefore concluded that, if God exists, all the misery of mankind must have been his intention.

The idea is so pervasive that even the mention of the word omniscience calls this necessity to mind.

And if we were to agree with Setanta that the word simply implies absolute knowledge, then we are left with the same necessity, for if knowledge is absolute, can anything be left unknown?

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No, of course an omniscient being not fail to know everything. That constitutes one of the best reasons to laugh at the comic book figure of a deity described in the old testament.

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The Old Testament being fodder for a second-rate director like Cecil B. DeMille is proof enough.

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neologist wrote:

The word 'omniscience' implies knowledge by necessity. One who is omnipotent would not be subject to necessity.

I think the distinction is one you are inferring, not one that is required by the definition.

Since the same prefix is used in both words, it seems like an artificial distinction.

My understanding of both words is that they describe an ability, not a necessity.

God is able to do anything He wishes, but there is no requirement that He do something simply because He is able to do so.

Similarly God is not limited in knowledge, but there is no requirement that He exercise this ability simply because He could do so.

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neologist wrote:

The word omniscience is often used to imply that God must have known in advance the outcome of his creation.

It is therefore concluded that, if God exists, all the misery of mankind must have been his intention.

The idea is so pervasive that even the mention of the word omniscience calls this necessity to mind.

And if we were to agree with Setanta that the word simply implies absolute knowledge, then we are left with the same necessity, for if knowledge is absolute, can anything be left unknown?

Knowledge and intent are two completely different issues, Neo.

Knowledge , even foreknowledge, does not necessitate intent.

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neologist wrote:

The word omniscience is often used to imply that God must have known in advance the outcome of his creation.

If he is omniscient, he must have, because he knows everything.

Quote:

It is therefore concluded that, if God exists, all the misery of mankind must have been his intention.

That is assuming he could be arsed to do anything to prevent the misery of mankind that he foresaw. Omniscience implies he must have known. It does not imply that he would have done anything.

If God is omniscient, that implies that God is responsible for the mistery of mankind through intent or through a lack of will to prevent it. Either way, it doesn't really paint him in a good light, does it?

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Real, check Wolf's post above to see what I mean.

Also, someone check Setanta's post to see if he might have omitted a word or two in the sentences he wrote.

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You're right. I say absolutely the same thing.

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neologist wrote:

Real, check Wolf's post above to see what I mean.

Also, someone check Setanta's post to see if he might have omitted a word or two in the sentences he wrote.

Yes, I saw that Wolf took the same position. But foreknowledge doesn't mean that God approves or consents in any way.

God knows that you will sin, but He has commanded you not to.

Is He responsible for your sin since He didn't stop you?

--------------------------

Yes, I noticed that Setanta omitted a good many things from his post, as you did also.

I have been discussing this phenomenon of omissions with CI.

Apparently he believes that the things omitted from the Bible automatically mean that the Bible is unreliable.

So I guess if we omit anything from our posts, then our credibility is shot. At least that seems to be his view.

Gonna be some long threads round here. I might have to scroll past quite a bit. Could get boring trying to avoid all those omissions.

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The Bible doesn't omit it's endorsement of slavery. Do you keep slaves?

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real life wrote:

Yes, I noticed that Setanta omitted a good many things from his post, as you did also.

I left a single word out, and when i noticed that, someone had already replied, so that i could not edit. However, you respond here with the shithead tactic of mentioning someone else, and someone else's rhetorical style.

Instead of sneering at C.I., why don't you ante up and list exactly what constituted the "good many things" which you allege that i ommitted from my post, flannel mouth?

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Setanta wrote:

No, of course an omniscient being would not fail to know everything. That constitutes one of the best reasons to laugh at the comic book figure of a deity described in the old testament. (quoted post altered by the addition of a single word)

Here, flannel-mouth, i'll make it easy for you. I have added to that quote the single word which i had inadvertently ommitted. Now tell me what "the good many things" which you allege i ommitted might be. Then explain where the hell you get off telling me how i ought to view such matters.

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Setanta wrote:

real life wrote:
Yes, I noticed that Setanta omitted a good many things from his post, as you did also.

I left a single word out, and when i noticed that, someone had already replied, so that i could not edit.......why don't you ante up and list exactly what constituted the "good many things" which you allege that i ommitted from my post...?

Actually I hadn't noticed that omission at all. So this wasn't a poke at you at all, that's why it wasn't addressed to you. I was simply commenting to Neo regarding his point.

However, you omitted what you ate for breakfast, as well as who won the World Series. I believe you also omitted who the mayor of your town is.

(Based on CI's criteria, omissions make us unreliable, thus he judges the Bible unreliable based partially on it's omissions, as he and I have discussed.)

For my part, I confess that I have omitted my wife's name and the ages of all of our children. I also omitted my country of birth and the make and model of my car. Serious omissions on my part. No doubt my post is therefore unreliable due to my omissions. Cool

Neo hasn't responded so I am not sure if he is concerned about his omissions. I think he omitted , among other things, the color of his shoes.

I wouldn't worry about it , Setanta. Looks like we're all in the same boat, but I'll omit the name of it. Cool

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You idiotic emoticons don't hide the fact that you used Neo's reference to my post to make a false statement, and go charging after C.I. I'm not responsible for what C.I. posts, and am no bound by what he states. C.I. is not responsible for my posts, and is not bound by what i state. Keep your nasty mouth off my posts, if you have nothing to say about them, and don't use my posts as a launching pad to rant at other members.

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Setanta wrote:

No, of course an omniscient being would not fail to know everything. That constitutes one of the best reasons to laugh at the comic book figure of a deity described in the old testament. (quoted post altered by the addition of a single word)

Can you see how this representation of God's ability would lead to the conclusion that all of the evil and human misery we suffer existed at one time only in the mind of God?

I don't think real life sees it. How about you?

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neologist wrote:

Setanta wrote:
No, of course an omniscient being would not fail to know everything. That constitutes one of the best reasons to laugh at the comic book figure of a deity described in the old testament. (quoted post altered by the addition of a single word)
Can you see how this representation of God's ability would lead to the conclusion that all of the evil and human misery we suffer existed at one time only in the mind of God?

I don't think real life sees it. How about you?

What is there specifically that you think God does not know?

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real life wrote:

neologist wrote:
Setanta wrote:
No, of course an omniscient being would not fail to know everything. That constitutes one of the best reasons to laugh at the comic book figure of a deity described in the old testament. (quoted post altered by the addition of a single word)
Can you see how this representation of God's ability would lead to the conclusion that all of the evil and human misery we suffer existed at one time only in the mind of God?

I don't think real life sees it. How about you?

What is there specifically that you think God does not know?

He does not necessarily know your moral and spiritual future. Otherwise he could not offer you a choice.

Additionally, if he knew in advance all the evil that would result from the Edenic rebellion, then he would be the proximate cause of it. War and crime and sickness and death are the responsibility of God's opposer.

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