Reflections in puddles

Reply to Farmerman
You might get some help from the following site.
-----BumbleBeeBoogie

http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/reflections.htm

thanks for the post. What Im looking for is the ability to reflect features in small bodies of water, like puddles. The closer you get to the puddle, the more you get skyward. Im sure its mere angle of incidence stuff but I want to be sure.

I was wondering the same thing, farmer, when I was doing a painting with a pool in it. I ended up just copying what I saw...but not understanding it. I had used a photo as a trigger for the painting, so I wasn't moving closer or further away or at a different angle to the pool, and the house and trees that were reflected weren't (of course) moving. If reflection was simply bouncing the sky right back, then the trees shouldn't have shown at all. They weren't just shadows, as they had color. This was a while ago, I'll have to go back and look at that photo again.

I so enjoy taking photos where the sky is reflected
in a quiet peaceful lake, or the treeline - or just
about anything, now that I think of it. I have a dandy
one of my grandson at the marina, reflected in the
water, but an even better one of him, with all those
big boats in the background & there is little old him
at 2-3 years old, standing in an interesting pose, one
foot up on the bannister railing - enjoying the sight of
all those big boats. I titled it "Longings". Children
make some of the most wonderful & unpretentious
subjects - usually when caught unaware or very
young. I have another one of him feeding bread to
the gulls at the beach during the winter - they are
all starving, so it seems like hundreds of them are
all gathering about you. In one photo, it shows a
rather large gull, directly in front of & above him,
with a big piece of bread tucked safely in his beak.
My daughter liked 4 of the set so much that she
still has them framed on her living room walls, though
it was from about 4 years ago. Pictures in small
puddles of - say a familiar landmark in New York
City - would be fascinating - it would be on a small
scale, but just as fine.
Lately I have been doing some experimenting with
fresh flowers - lying them just so directly on the
scanner & just scan them. I saw an example of
someone else's using this technique so I decided to
give it a try. I have some unusual flowering shrubs
in my yard and they did turn out very interesting.
Also, an advantage is that no matter what size they
are enlarged to, the picture retains the original
quality.

Its an experiment that I tried, yesterday, since weve been haqving so much rain lately we are blessed with all sorts of puddles which, a year ago would have been mirages
. Stand with a protractor ( I use a clinometer) and at your eye height measure the angle into a puddle that has something reflected within. Go to the other side of the puddle, where the item being reflected is located and shoot the same angle into the puddle at the same distance. then turn around and measure the similar angle to the item being reflected. IT should be the same but it aint. Maybe its a refraction phenomena. Wow science in art, and its something Ive never thoughjt about before. I want to get a mirror and repeat the same experiment and if the angles of "reflection" arent the same , water refraqction has something to do with it.

Puddle modeling
Farmerman, I hope I've found a helpful site to solve your puddle reflection problem.

-----BumbleBeeBoogie

4.4.5 Puddles

Puddles occur in the landscape as a result of irregularities and depressions in the terrain. Even the most carefully leveled paved parking area has small, local imperfections, and water finds and highlights them, from its tendency to run to lower elevations, and to "seek its own level," forming small local perfectly flat areas which contrast with the surrounding terrain. On brick, asphalt, or concrete, often these puddles, over time, form a kind of "bathtub ring" of stain or discoloration that extends around the perimeter of the puddle. MODELING PUDDLES CAN BE DONE IS THE SAME WAY AS DESCRIBED FOR LAKES AND PONDS earlier: a flat surface of water is superimposed over the slightly irregular terrain of bricks or paving. Where the water is exposed is the puddle.

http://www.landscapemodeling.org/html/ch4/ch4text.htm#4.3.1

If this doesn't help, you might try these sites:

http://www.physics.utoledo.edu/~lsa/_color/mod09.htm

http://www.phschool.com/math/awsm/geometry/geo0303.html

http://www.phys.virginia.edu/education/outreach/8thgradesol/InternalReflection.htm

http://www.stetson.edu/departments/mathcs/students/research/cs/cs498/2000/ericenglish.pdf

http://www.folds.net/diamond_design/

BBB-holy cow, thank you. Now Ive gotta visit the links , Ill get back with what I find since the artists who do this may be interested


BBB- according to most of the guides, It IS <i=<r so Im not doing something right in my field measurements. I think I need to repeat my experiments with a point of reflection and not a surface.
Also, the goniometer and diamond reflrction page brought back memories of my old days in crystal chemistry. and Xray diffraction

Farmerman
Farmerman, you gave me the clue re how to find the answers you sought. I just used your own words, "angles of "reflection" and "water refraqction" to search on Google. This was my search request:
water puddle angles of reflection and water refraction in art, which took me to:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=water+puddle+angles+of+reflection+and+water+refraction+in+art&spell=1

Aint Google wonderful?

For example, here is another site that may be even better than those I already found for you:

http://itg1.meteor.wisc.edu/wxwise/wxpilot/lesson2/observations/chapter5.html

-----BumbleBeeBoogie

BBB-well if I had spelled refraction correctly instead of with a Q , My problem with this laptop is my keyboard is too small and Im too llazy to spellcheck.
The wisc meteorology page had a nice discussion of the phenom. Now all Ive gotta do is figure out how to "create" puddles that dont exist and figure out how they would reflect a landscape. I think Ill have to artificially place my puddles in watercolor scenes in order to get the best reflections. Thanks a million

So I get it, about reflection and refraction. I think. Still, I am not clear that if I move personally away from the aforementioned puddle, will the reflections still be in the same approximate place, say, for example, the reflection of trees from a pool surface, that is, without much time passing as I do the moving?

I assume they stay approximately where they are because of the incidence of light remaining the same...

why maths and theory???? if you are working plein air you can see what happens???? and what the colours do ...

well not really Vivien. Im installing puddles at places that puddles werent, but I wanted them to be. Plein aire mostly, but with much artistic license. Ive found what I needed and its all angle of incidence based upon my artificial eyeline.
You do make a good point though. I just havent ever found my ideal painting scene

aah i see farmerman - yes you would need to work it out. Never was good at maths though!

From experience of working plein air at the coast a lot, where the tide recedes a long long way and thepaintings are about reflections and colours in wet sand and pools - the reflections are often of something outside the painting - clouds or blue sky that can't be seen otherwise - that can be interesting,

Neat vivien. I work watercolors so puddles show up as mostly sections of the white paper and the reflections. I just did one of a truck carriage of an old steam engine sitting and rusting at the Strasburg Railroad museum. There wasnt a puddle in front of the engine so I made one on the tarmac next to the track. I wound up with a neat portrait of the carriage in its reflection.

One of my favorite machine illustrators is Ted Rose, the Railroad artist , so I keep getting influenced by him but with my own spin in which I like to show fleeting light from cloudy days (Thats why I really liked the Prentice work you posted on another thread)

Farmerman - I'd love to see your work ....????

Ill be making some CD rom fotos for an art competition early this summer. ill try to post a pic or 2 on the members line. I havent gotten round to doing a web page cause Im lazy and have to learn too many things about formats etc so this goes undone.
ill let you know when I get the cd roms finished and posted so you can find the work.

I'm also really interested in seeing your work, farmerman. I've been puzzling over this question since I saw it, without an answer. I went to art school 'n' all but when it comes to watercolors I'm mostly self-trained. I do what looks right without much thought for or knowledge of specific techniques.

I havent gotten round to doing a web page cause Im lazy

Farmerman



Look at this site: http://www.4uall2c.com

(my site on it: http://www.4uall2c.com/vivienblackburn/index.html)

they create an individual site for you for free and all you have to do is email the images. You might be interested???

Sozobe - me too.

Vivien, this sounds interesting. Maybe Ill give them a try and get it done . Thanks for the url