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The Fiction of "Fact"

 
 
Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 04:31 pm
THE FICTION OF SCIENCE FACT



I will more than likely arouse an argument with my following statements, and I'd like to encourage such. More than one person I know believes that evolution and all the principles that support evolution are completely false. Here is why I have come to believe that all of evolutions supporters are wrong.
First and foremost, the basics of evolution and its teachings. All animals, plants and any living organisms came from one organism an extremely long time ago, I assume evolutionists believe it to be in the billions of years. To disprove this I'll tell a story as I see it by one of these organisms named Fred.

One organism or multiple organisms of the same kind, are dwelling in an oceanic environment billions of years ago. Suddenly Fred (my main character, being an example of billion year old organisms) decides he wants to be a plant, for whatever reasons he thinks. Maybe he just likes the idea, after all there would be no predators feeding on his kind, because he is the first organism ever to live. Fred decides he wants roots one day, a brown or green stem, and possibly a leaf or two. Naturally according to an evolutionist, it is gradual. First Fred would automatically assume that to be a plant he'd have to dwell on the ocean floor, maybe a nice spot near the beach. So Fred starts hanging out at the bottom with a couple of his cousins that he has talked into developing into plants as well. Magically, amazingly, or just plain really hard dwelling on becoming a plant, he starts to develop his roots. After he starts getting these roots, he gets married and has a kid. The kid is born, half organism with roots for some unexplained reason. Fred knows its because of his dedication of wanting to become a plant. Fred eventually dies, after of course, sharing the secret of how he wanted roots so badly that they appeared. So now, all of his cousins begin to die off, after they too have developed these roots. Junior now is left not knowing what he is, but his father told him of the benefits of becoming a plant. So now Junior wants with all his will and insignificant might to become a plant like his dad once dreamed of. Low and behold, just after Junior is married his baby is born with not only roots, but a stem as well!

The process continues with the first organisms wanting to be different specimens of plants, plankton, small fish, and everything in between. Until, one day the ocean is filled with all the different species this one organism has developed into. Suddenly there are predators who feed on the plants, plants that feed on the plankton, and who knows what other dangers.

Now I don't know about you, but if I were one of the many offspring Fred produced then I would definitely start looking at my options, and thinking to myself that being a plant was now quite dangerous. Just like an employee at a McDonalds after a week, I'd wish for something else. So one day, George the plant, thinks manÂ… would it ever be nice to not only be a plant, but to be one that can survive out of this watery grave. He begins his deep thought and contemplating on becoming a land plant. Of course along the way he picks up a few followers who want to do the same. And, just like his very great granddad before him, he starts to change. First he grows these little legs, and begins to walk about halfway out of the water, where he finds he needs different appendages and such to survive the new atmosphere. Not quite ready to assume full land capabilities he finds a nice comfortable pool of water just out reach of the ocean. He digs his feet into the muddy bottom of the pool of water, and finds his new environment rather friendly, and welcome.

His friends and he die off one by one, but not without producing offspring of the same sort of plant that they have become. A couple of million years down the road, the small pool of water has grown into a small pond, and some of Freds family has spread into fully capable, oxygen producing land plants.

Molly and her clique of friends decide they want to change the world some day. They don't want to be land dwelling plants, nor do they wish to go back to thier original home in the ocean. They want to live, they want to see the world... literally!

"Wouldn't it be great to have eyes, and ears, arms and legs Becky?" Molly asks with some derelict form of communication.

"Oh, that would be nice," Becky adds with fortitude.

"Lets do it, lets be animals!"

The process continues on and on, throughout millions of years of evolution. All from one organism, all into different species, of plant, reptile, mammal, trees, and eventually humans working at McDonalds.

Now I may come off as a little sarcastic in my little story, which I fully intended. But I want someone, anyone, to clarify a couple of things for me if they can. Wouldn't some form of plant be found with gills? Perhaps an animal, with roots? Would there ever be that one link that connects monkeys or apes to humans? Wouldn't there be an unending supply of specimens? An Ape with a leaf instead of an ear, or a human with a bannana? Something. What about communication? How would organisms gradually change into plants and animals?

In case anyone has been thinking through this story, "What made this guy think of this stuff," its simply this.

Guppies. I have a fish tank, with a water frog, and guppies, and a couple other fish I don't know what they are. I know these fish don't like living in my fish tank, but for some reason they lack the will to turn into algae and start becoming part of our society
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,667 • Replies: 175
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 04:46 pm
Welcome to A2K Astounding.

Your apparent lack of understanding of what evolutionary theories purport is 'astounding'. I've never heard the idea proposed that individuals direct their own evolution. Sounds like Lamarck on acid at best. Or maybe Kipling's 'Just so' stories being workshopped by Monty Python?
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JasonL
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 04:48 pm
So how does Evolution work and when are we due for our next change?
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astounding
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 04:48 pm
I'm sorry it sounded like you said evolutionary THEORIES.
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spendius
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:04 pm
Jason wrote-

Quote:
So how does Evolution work and when are we due for our next change?


Imagine the environment as a gigantic meaningless and random sieve.That's how E works.

The next big change is when liberals take over and start fixing the sieve to select in what they want selecting in. It's schizoid when you think it through.
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:11 pm
JasonL wrote:
So how does Evolution work and when are we due for our next change?


Do some reading - then maybe you'll understand that there isn't a roster, or a direction. Sheesh.

astounding wrote:
I'm sorry it sounded like you said evolutionary THEORIES.


No need to apologise - that's exactly what I said. They're just theories about how species come about, adapt, disappear. Did you want me to give you incontrovertible fact? The only way you'll get that (about anything) is through self delusion.
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spendius
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:17 pm
astounding-

Don't worry mate.They have told me I'm deluded ad nauseum. It's the only way they know how to debate.
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parados
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:22 pm
You don't disprove anything by telling a made up story.

But spendi.. you are deluded ad nauseum. Laughing
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spendius
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:25 pm
See what I mean.It actually is the only way they know how to debate. I wasn't kidding as you can see.
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parados
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:31 pm
Good ole spendi. The phrase turned always seems to escape you.
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spendius
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:52 pm
If it doesn't work they head off into the inscrutable enigma.
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astounding
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 05:52 pm
and self delusion is exactly what evolution presents. lol, I'm glad so many people KNOW how the universe was created, animals transferred from one species to another, and so on and so forth. oh, by the way hinge, if humans came from monkeys, and monkeys changed into humans, why did some remain monkeys and apes? why didn't they all change?
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Setanta
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:02 pm
JasonL wrote:
So how does Evolution work and when are we due for our next change?


Human evolutionary changes since the genus homo arose have been most strikingly marked by the evolution of the brain case, limited by the capacity of the birth canal, the result of which was to provide more space for brain tissue with which to perceive, understand and direct the manipulation of the environment.

Homo sapiens sapiens is now literate, and our knowledge and memories are now stored outside our bodies in libraries, universities and research institutions. There is no need for further physical evolution--which is not to say something would not occur, but simply to note that it likely would confer no reproductive advantage.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:07 pm
astounding wrote:
and self delusion is exactly what evolution presents. lol, I'm glad so many people KNOW how the universe was created, animals transferred from one species to another, and so on and so forth. oh, by the way hinge, if humans came from monkeys, and monkeys changed into humans, why did some remain monkeys and apes? why didn't they all change?


You laugh at others due to your own ignorance. A theory of evolution does not stipulate cosmic origins--a theory of evolution "does not care" whether or not the cosmos were created, and neither confirms nor denies the existence of a deity.

Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Monkeys and humans have a common ancestor, a very long way back. It is incorrect to state that humans evolved from monkeys.
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:28 pm
Set, thanks for picking up the irrelevant cosmological reference.

I have pondered, as a mind game, what traits a modern human would have that would provide progeny with an advantage over others in producing progeny that would have an advantage over (and so on).

Demographic studies seem to indicate that poverty is useful (the wealthier western countries have rapidly decling birth rates). And living after you stopped spawning young seems wasteful. Anyone else got any ideas or should I post a new topic?
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:41 pm
astounding wrote:
if humans came from monkeys, and monkeys changed into humans, why did some remain monkeys and apes? why didn't they all change?


Apart from Set's statement that we share a common ancestor there is also the idea of ecological niche's. Some of our ancestors hit the plains where we had an advantage over the existing players. Others stayed in the trees where they either evolved into monkeys or were out evolved by them.

Of course now it's changing because we're cutting down the trees. So wait a couple of centuries and you won't be able to say 'how come there are still monkeys?'.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, because this is a science and math's forum - you should have stated your creationist position from the start, then I could have ignored you. I thought you might have had scientific reasons for having issues with evolution (they do exist), but that's called the scientific method, which is dismissed by the faithful in matters theological.

Guess I'll see you in Religion and Philosophy, monkey boy :wink:.
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astounding
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:41 pm
thats right, because these said creatures from so long ago decided to change one day, figuring I suppose, that a hairless body, or a larger brain would benefit them correct? evolution doesnt care is exactly my point Setanta. Evolution cannot judge whether something should change, why it should nor can it see into the future as to what certain appendages that an organism lacks now would benefit that same organism in the future. Does anyone know what sarcasm is? or how about the definition of theory? evolution is simply this, a theory created by a man. And as a theory everything contained in such articles relating to evolution are unproven and not subject to a persons belief in any way whatsoever. or shouldn't be to the learned man anyhow. Now I'm not saying you or anyone posting here is uneducated in any way, however the study of evolution has gaps and holes which cannot be explained logically. for instance, algae. Algae in some ancient time wanted to be a different kind of plant and so it changed to such. why? how? does it think? is evolution a force that cannot be stopped? can it change gradually or suddenly a plant into a fish or a bird? I laugh at you in part of your ignorance setanta. And since evolution is some unstoppable force, especially to recognize that we have libraries and universities, and to unexplainable stop its progression of everything, including the world, why aren't there churches and cathedrals set up in recognition of this great omnipresent force? theory my friends, made up by a man, believed by you. illusion, delusion, simple lack of attention... whatever the case you believe in this, theory, is beyond me. Perhaps its the fact that you so badly do not want to acknowledge a God, or gods. who knows, whatever the case may be, its a theory and will not, nor will it ever be a fact.
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astounding
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:44 pm
and I'm sure you will there, theory believer. Laughing
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:50 pm
Ast - Evolution is not a force, it doesn't direct anything. It simply describes a process. It's not a god. It's not a theology. It's not in competition with your religious beliefs.
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hingehead
 
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Reply Tue 18 Apr, 2006 06:53 pm
astounding wrote:
theory believer


I prefer the term 'guarded theory acceptor until proof of something else is given' Very Happy
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