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Aliens?

 
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 01:32 am
Don't even know what those things are Embarrassed
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 01:40 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Very simply, Drake says there should be lots of aliens but Fermi says OK how come we have heard no sign of them via radio / light waves?
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 01:48 am
Will check that out later. Gotta get up in 2 hours for a meeting and I have to sleep so I can wake up :-)


Will be back with my report.
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Ray
 
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Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 10:55 pm
Chumly, great links Exclamation

So Fermi paradox is regarding the existence of technologically advanced aliens, and not of just aliens. Does this mean that humans are the only hope for advanced life forms?
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 11:12 pm
Ray, I think it means we never get to meet any of the others. Of course, others will probably succeed us from this biosphere in the future. Probably cats I reckon (if they haven't already)
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 12:34 am
My memory on this point is nor purrrfect*, but I think it was Asimov who speculated in one of his essays, that the reason why we have not heard any aliens via electromagnetic radiation (or whatever medium) is that technologically advanced aliens, would used focused electromagnetic radiation (or whatever medium) and wide-band unfocused electromagnetic radiation (or whatever medium) only takes place for a short time in the technological evolution of a species' communication.

However even if this argument is true, it does not provide the reason why technologically advanced aliens would not want to display some sort of welcome beacon (as pulsars were for a bit once speculated to possibility be).

*Unless of course cat whiskers are absorbing all the Aliens' electromagnetic radiation. Remember, cat whiskers were once used in crystal radio sets! http://home.luna.nl/~arjan-muil/radio/cats%20whisker.htm
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 05:09 pm
Maybe if there are advanced intelligent life-forms, they do not have the resources to make broad-casting devices, or maybe they have but the signal just hasn't reached us yet.
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Chumly
 
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Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 05:34 pm
Hi aperson

Yup, both are possible! (is your brain exploding yet from all your cool questions?)

However if they are technologically advanced intelligent life-forms, it's dubious they would not have the resources to make "broad-casting devices", but they certainly could be physically and intellectually advanced intelligent life-forms and not have "broad-casting devices".

As to your question of the signal not reaching us yet we would need to make a few assumptions about how long they have been transmitting given that the electromagnetic spectrum travels (pretty much) at the speed of light. So if they have been transmitting for 10,000 years, you could expect a radius of 10,000 light-years.

Another possibility is that most if not all technologically advanced intelligent life-forms self-destruct before long and hence don't put out much electromagnetic for extended periods.

Another possibility is that most if not all sufficiently advanced intelligent life-forms soon metamorphosize into the equivalent of non-corporal life (what some might call godlike) and are indifferent to the physical world as we know it. Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke is about such a consideration.

Cheers,
Chum
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 06:31 pm
Chumly wrote:

Another possibility is that most if not all sufficiently advanced intelligent life-forms soon metamorphosize into the equivalent of non-corporal life (what some might call godlike) and are indifferent to the physical world as we know it. Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke is about such a consideration.

Cheers,
Chum


Excuse me for being stupid but what's this about "non-corporal life"?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 09:07 pm
I would use non-corporal life in this thread to mean::


The popular theme of a life form that does not have a physical structure like humans do, but is perhaps some type of organized and controlled energy. Such a life form might be hard to detect by us and might have abilities that would seem to us to be godlike or magical.

I am not suggesting that such life forms exist, but personally I cannot see why they could not exist, and I would argue that non-corporal life is much more likely than a non-corporal supreme being such as defined in the Abrahamic religions.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 11:15 pm
Funny I have never heard of this theory.

Surely if these "non-corporal" beings are a form of energy, they wouldn't have conscious thought?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 12:38 am
Conscious thought in humans is a function of electrochemical signals between neurons in the brain, so why couldn't a structure that performs a similar function be maintained by energy signals (electrical and/or photonic etc.) in an energy matrix. I am not suggesting I have any direct knowledge of non-corporal intelligence, it's speculation, but it's fun.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 12:56 am
Chumly wrote:
aperson wrote:
Funny I have never heard of this theory.
Have you put much effort into learning about the various theories and their pros and cons?


To be honest - no. Maybe I thought by coming here I could learn some of them.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 12:58 am
In 5,000 years things could be very, very different, think how far we have come in the last 100 years!
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 01:26 pm
So you're saying we could manually morph ourselves into these beings?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 03:03 pm
Perhaps someday, it's pure speculation, but as I said it is a common Science Fiction theme and although Science Fiction is IMHO not written to predict, it does raise some interesting questions.

A more likely shorter term consideration would be artificial intelligence, which one might argue, is to some degree non-corporal, because it's really the software not the hardware that is the intelligence. But that to some fair degree is more a question of semantics and perspective.

Also just to keep things straight I do mean "non-corporal" in the sense that a Science Fiction writer might use it to describe an intelligence without conventional physical form.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 03:25 pm
Computers cannot be counted as beings because in humans there is actually something "looking out" and being the human, whereas in computers, there is nothing "looking out" from the computer. This could be described as a soul.

Now we could go on and on about whether or not people and computers have souls, but this is a thing I go by on initiative and instinct, and no matter how much evidence is put before me I would still not believe that computers have souls.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 03:49 pm
There is something called the Turing Test. Look it up, it's interesting and fun and makes arguments about computers, intelligence and perception.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 10:04 pm
Chumly wrote:
There is something called the Turing Test. Look it up, it's interesting and fun and makes arguments about computers, intelligence and perception.


Interesting... The computer programs used must be very sofisticated. Are the interrogators allowed to ask any question at all?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Apr, 2006 10:28 pm
I am not 100% sure but I believe yes.
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