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Former first lady's donation aids son

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:52 am
Such a practice as she did, specifying the charitable use of the money to purchase something from a relative, I think depends on whether the relative is offering a legitimate service that benefits the cause that the charity is striving to serve. It is the charity's business as to whether it is good use of the money. That should be their decision moreso than whatever Barbara Bush submits as a request along with her donation. If their mission is corrupted from what they might otherwise do, then perhaps you have a point. Perhaps it raises eyebrows. Is there any law governing or forbidding such a practice? If not, then theres nothing more to talk about here.
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:10 am
okie wrote:
Such a practice as she did, specifying the charitable use of the money to purchase something from a relative, I think depends on whether the relative is offering a legitimate service that benefits the cause that the charity is striving to serve. It is the charity's business as to whether it is good use of the money. That should be their decision moreso than whatever Barbara Bush submits as a request along with her donation. If their mission is corrupted from what they might otherwise do, then perhaps you have a point. Perhaps it raises eyebrows. Is there any law governing or forbidding such a practice? If not, then theres nothing more to talk about here.
See, Jed, there are things we have here in other parts of the country which may be unethical, but not necessarily illegal. Probably akin to lynching in your neck of the woods.

Nevertheless, the fact that they may not be illegal per se-- assuming arguendo that they are not-- does not negate their value in the evaluation of moral character.

To put it more simply, if the donor's name happened to be Hilary and Chelsea somehow benefitted, how loudly would you all be yelping?

Never mind. Just another rhetorical question.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:15 am
blacksmithn wrote:
To put it more simply, if the donor's name happened to be Hilary and Chelsea somehow benefitted, how loudly would you all be yelping?

Never mind. Just another rhetorical question.


Don't "never mind." I'm glad to clarify. The answer is not loudly at all. There are plenty of legitimate crimes to yelp about in the Clintons case. If we wanted to complain about the charitable works, I could probably bring up their donations of used, probably well used, "underwear," excuse me, "undergarments," to charity for a tax deduction. I had totally forgotten about that, and I bet most people had, but I think that happened. Perhaps somebody could refresh our memory here since we are talking about the great charitable works of our politicians here.

P. S. I did a search on it and apparently it was a $2.00 pair of Bill's used underwear to Goodwill. Shocked

Then theres always Abramoff/Indian Tribes connected funds given to charity:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1552362/posts
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:37 am
Thanks for the clarification, Eb, full of crap as it is. By framing it as a rhetorical question, I was hoping to save you from embarassing yourself further, but I see now it's a fruitless task.

But I have no doubt that you'll get to the bottom of the Great Underwear Scandal, having made it up out of whole cloth...
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:53 am
So, if Chelsea had a restaurant in New Orleans, and Hillary donated $100,000.00 to the Red Cross with the designation that it be used to buy meals for the refugees from Chelsea's restaurant ... That would be okay, okie?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 11:04 am
Here's the deal.

It isn't wrong for Momma Bush to be giving her son money. But it isn't a charitable donation.

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 11:50 am
She isn't giving him money without his business providing a charitable service to the charitable organization. I am not defending it as something I would do or recommend. I am simply saying this may not be a clear case of corruption. If you can cite a law against the practice, I am willing to listen. And also you are ignoring the fact that the charity is the ultimate authority in what they do with the money and spending the money in a responsible manner. They are the ones responsible for how it is spent. I or you could donate all the money we wanted and request they use it a certain way, but it would mean nothing if they chose to ignore it.

If Chelsea had a restaurant, yes I would probably question the practice, but if there is no law against making a request for the charity to use the money in a certain way in conjunction with a donation, then we would have to ignore it, right? If Chelsea provides the meals in a competitive manner, price wise, then that is what the charity people would have to be responsible for, and answer to their board or whoever controls the charity.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 11:54 am
Right, like I said. There's nothing wrong with the practice. But it doesn't really count as charity, not in the traditional sense.

Cycloptichorn
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 11:56 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Right, like I said. There's nothing wrong with the practice. But it doesn't really count as charity, not in the traditional sense.

Cycloptichorn


Why? Does the son manage a 503 (c) Charity?

Did the donation get used by the charity to perform charitible services?
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:01 pm
The son's business isn't providing CHARITABLE anything. They're selling the software at a PROFIT.

The mom gets a deduction and the son gets to pocket money from the charity. Get it yet?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:01 pm
To add to what woiyo asks, if a service was provided to the charity, and charitable works were accomplished, why does it not qualify as charity? All kinds of companies sell stuff to charities. Are they all crooks now?
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:04 pm
blacksmithn wrote:
The son's business isn't providing CHARITABLE anything. They're selling the software at a PROFIT.

The mom gets a deduction and the son gets to pocket money from the charity. Get it yet?


From the article..

""Since then, the Ignite Learning program has been given to eight area schools that took in substantial numbers of Hurricane Katrina evacuees"

Show me WHERE the software was being sold for a profit relative to this specific donation. Are you suggesting the article was wrong?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:07 pm
A donation was made to the charity.

The charity was told where to purchase a particular product.

The product was purchased by the charity as directed.

The charity gave the product away after purchasing it.

~~~~~~~

The product was not given to the charity.

~~~~~~~

The process may not be illegal - it just smells hinky.
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:10 pm
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-donation25mar25,1,5007518.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

"The Houston fund forwarded Bush's donation to another nonprofit organization, which bought the software."

Not gave, bought. Not bought at a discount, or at wholesale, or at fire sale prices. Bought.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:13 pm
Thereby enriching Neil Bush.

I don't know about the tax implications; but this isn't 'giving from the heart.' It's 'giving my son some money and trying to look good at the same time.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:15 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Thereby enriching Neil Bush.

I don't know about the tax implications; but this isn't 'giving from the heart.' It's 'giving my son some money and trying to look good at the same time.'

Cycloptichorn
Exactly so.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:16 pm
ehBeth wrote:
A donation was made to the charity.

The charity was told where to purchase a particular product.

The product was purchased by the charity as directed.

The charity gave the product away after purchasing it.

~~~~~~~

The product was not given to the charity.

~~~~~~~

The process may not be illegal - it just smells hinky.


AGAIN...from the article...

"Former first lady Barbara Bush donated an undisclosed amount of money to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund with specific instructions that the money be spent with an educational software company owned by her son Neil."

What "product" that they did NOT already own did they purchase?

The product was not SUPPOSED to be given to a charity. The PRODUCT was to go to SCHOOLS to help CHILDREN raveged by the Hurricane!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:26 pm
While nobody has come up with any laws being broken here, we're still waiting at least, I just wondered if it is against the law for criminals to donate large sums of money to a presidential library fund in exchange for a presidential pardon?
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:50 pm
I don't know, Clem. Is it against the law for a President to lie about the reasons to go to war and then start one? I mean, as long as we're dragging in straw men.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:53 pm
When it comes to the Bush's, what happens with the family STAYS in the family.

Kinda like Vegas.
0 Replies
 
 

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