Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 05:08 pm
I care a jot about the next Resident of WHITE house..
Yes we can.
is the only slogan.

Pity USA export many many many thing.
DEMOCRACY
is not the one
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 07:12 pm
American Conservatism in 2008 and beyond

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/rcookchart1.gif

Seems to be rather less popular then it used to be.

We're going to increase these numbers by November, increase these leads in registration.

per Realclearpolitics

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 07:28 pm
Cyclo, You already know what the conservatives are gonna claim; that polls and party registration doesn't mean anything until the votes are in in November.

You'll have to provde more evidence that Obama has a good or better chance of winning over McCain.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 08:35 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Do you think Jeb is angry that his brother has probably ruined his chances of ever attaining national office, when he is far more qualified?

Cycloptichorn


Is Jeb a community organizer?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 08:48 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Do you think Jeb is angry that his brother has probably ruined his chances of ever attaining national office, when he is far more qualified?

Cycloptichorn


Is Jeb a community organizer?


Oh!! A devilishly witty aside - slyly referencing Obama's history, counterposed in a way that suggests his inexperience!

How DOES he come up with these creative gems?


But then, I guess I would be reduced to making slimeball snide comments too, if I were a little minded man paralyzed with fear at the spectre of the first black president.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:15 pm
snood wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Do you think Jeb is angry that his brother has probably ruined his chances of ever attaining national office, when he is far more qualified?

Cycloptichorn


Is Jeb a community organizer?


Oh!! A devilishly witty aside - slyly referencing Obama's history, counterposed in a way that suggests his inexperience!

How DOES he come up with these creative gems?


But then, I guess I would be reduced to making slimeball snide comments too, if I were a little minded man paralyzed with fear at the spectre of the first black president.

I think it is a genuine concern about what community organizing really is and why is it such a resume builder for president?

Some of us are still waiting to find out how you organize a community. and what a community organizer does. I think somebody suggested that maybe Obama was involved with ACORN, as part of his community organizing, now that is a heart stopper, and very impressive! What else would there be?

Snood, I would vote for the first black president, if that black was a conservative. I take your remark as being pretty snide in that regard, and it is a total turnoff. I don't think it is correct or advisable for his supporters to turn this into a referendum on race. If so, I think his lead in the polls will evaporate very quickly.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:33 pm
okie wrote:
Snood, I would vote for the first black president, if that black was a conservative. I take your remark as being pretty snide in that regard, and it is a total turnoff. I don't think it is correct or advisable for his supporters to turn this into a referendum on race. If so, I think his lead in the polls will evaporate very quickly.

And what kind of crystal ball are you using?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:35 pm
BTW, are you talking about the Bush-type of conservatism or the McCain-type of conservatism?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie wrote:
Quote:
Snood, I would vote for the first black president, if that black was a conservative. I take your remark as being pretty snide in that regard, and it is a total turnoff. I don't think it is correct or advisable for his supporters to turn this into a referendum on race. If so, I think his lead in the polls will evaporate very quickly.


And what kind of crystal ball are you using?

I don't have any, ci. Just opinions, which you are being charged for what they are worth.

I don't know how many Obama voters are beyond changing their mind, but I think that if it becomes perceived that Obama is running on his race, many voters would mutiny. I don't think that inspires the better side of people.

True, I can only speak for myself, but when somebody like snood makes remarks that somebody is afraid of electing a black president, my reaction is one of being insulted, and I tend to think of that person that makes the accusation as being a possible racist themselves. Frankly, I am tired of the race wars, I think I am beyond that. It is juvenile, and immature. Run on your policy, on your experience, and on your qualifications, I don't want to hear about race.

I think back to the Republican convention, I remember Michael Steele, another black politician, he gave a great speech, much better than Obama in my opinion, very inspiring, and I would vote for that guy in a heart beat.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:02 pm
okie, You're making assumptions and accusations where none exists except in your own brain. Quit being a putz.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:19 pm
Maybe. Snood seems like a nice guy, but he seems to drift off into racial accusations too often, and I wish he didn't do that, so I try to pull him back to a better foundation for the way to think or approach things. Voting for president should not be about race.

I noticed he started a thread called "Fear of a Black President," to which my reaction so far is to totally avoid, I have no interest in engaging in such talk. Maybe I would have to be black to understand it, but I simply do not understand the desire to wallow around in self pity and complaints. I am of the personal opinion that such arguments really get in the way of things more pertinent. If we wear our race on our sleeve, it will not help us, and that includes Obama and his supporters. Sure, there may be some people that will not vote for a black person, but there are many that will vote for Obama simply because he is black, but it should not be a qualification or an issue above all else.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:44 pm
okie, What you don't realize is that snood does wear his race on his sleeve. I'm Japanese American, and I wear my race on my sleeve too! What's your problem?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:53 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, What you don't realize is that snood does wear his race on his sleeve. I'm Japanese American, and I wear my race on my sleeve too! What's your problem?

Then snood has a problem, and you have a problem. I do not perceive you as wearing it on your sleeve. Yes, you are aware of it, and proud of it, but you do not make everything that has ever happened to you a subject of race.

We have discussed the camps that FDR used, of which you experienced, but I do not percieve you as harboring bitterness to a great extent to this day, in fact you seem to defend FDR.

Nobody earns respect for where they came from or the heritage they have, they earn it by the content of their character. Isn't that what MLK said. Humans are all subject to being downright rotten, no matter the race, and being of a certain race does not guarantee us or entitle us to anything in regards to respect. We all have to earn it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:57 pm
"Wearing it on my sleeve" is rhetorical. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that I'm Asian. It's a part of me, and believe it or not, I had no choice in the matter.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 11:01 pm
BTW, I continue to "wear it on my sleeve," because I remember people saying to me "go home where you came from," or "look what we did for you Japs," or "look at him, the chin chin chinaman." And some similar comments were less than a decade ago.

I get very touchy with all manners of bigotry even today, but that's me.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 11:08 pm
Humans are like chickens, there is a pecking order, but kudos to you for not giving into it. Those people that said those things were probably failures and duds themselves, ci, that is what I have observed usually is the case. Take solace in that - they were probably losers themselves.

My dad fought in the pacific, and would never buy a Japanese car, never, but if he ever met a Japanese man, he would never utter a word anything like that, he was totally courteous and loved every person no matter the heritage, it was a country thing, not a person thing, if you understand my drift.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jul, 2008 11:48 pm
okie wrote:
Humans are like chickens, there is a pecking order, but kudos to you for not giving into it. Those people that said those things were probably failures and duds themselves, ci, that is what I have observed usually is the case. Take solace in that - they were probably losers themselves.

My dad fought in the pacific, and would never buy a Japanese car, never, but if he ever met a Japanese man, he would never utter a word anything like that, he was totally courteous and loved every person no matter the heritage, it was a country thing, not a person thing, if you understand my drift.


One of our very best friends is a man of full blood Japanese descent. As a USA citizen, born in Hawaii, has he suffered discrimination because of his race? Almost certrainly he has, but he has never mentioned it though he and his wife have spent many evenings and whole nights at our house and we at theirs. A few years ago he obtained his minister's license and was called to a church in "little Texas' in Southeast New Mexico. I grew up in that county and I honestly didn't know how the people there would react to a Japanese preacher. When I was a child, he would not have been received at all, much less well. But now in the 21st century, they loved him. The people have matured and evolved and adopted a more reasoned view of the world over the last five decades or so.

He was next called to a church in the Oklahoma Panhandle to a very small, tightly ingrown town in one of the most staunchly redneck areas left in the country. How would they respond to a Japanese preacher? They loved him. The whole town loved him and the whole town gave him a loving sendoff when they left. Frankly I was amazed at how much things have changed since the 1940's, 50's and 60's.

There is no way that a black man could have been nominated by a major political party in the United States in the 1950's. But it has happened now.

The world is changing and will continue to change. All of us have had to deal with something - some more than others it is true - but if we continue to nurse wounds and injustices of the past, they will never heal and we'll never get past them and continue to be better than we once were.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sat 19 Jul, 2008 12:33 am
I have also come to believe that alot of things are self fulfilling prophecy. If you think people don't like you, you will act that way, and it may turn out that way. This is true with race, looks, popularity, happiness, and a whole host of things.

How many times does every person suffer rejection, whether it be jobs, dates, marriage, whatever, but if you have an embedded mindset that people are against you because of race, every rejection then becomes a racial rejection.

Unfortunately, that is the setup with many of Obama's supporters. If a voter rejects him, it may now be because of race, not his politics or policies. They have framed the election as a referendum on race. But, that could not be further from the truth in the vast majority of cases. And merely ignoring the few where it is the case will further minimize the number that are, and will enhance your reputation among the rest. If only they could understand that, and escape from their own prejudiced view of the world around them.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Sat 19 Jul, 2008 06:49 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that I'm Asian.


I had no clue ... good for you Cool
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 19 Jul, 2008 07:12 am
Obama's in Kabul:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/barack_obama_arrives_in_afghan.html
0 Replies
 
 

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