Obama '08?

"Parents with poor basic educational skills don't force the kids to do extra homework or studying. Education and the drive to succeed in education is a learned, generational skill; it doesn't pop up out of nowhere.

If you have crappy teachers, and parents who are uneducated themselves, the child in question is not going to succeed. Period. Great, or at least good, teachers are an essential part of success."

Really? Are you an expert on parents with "poor basic educational skills"?

I can give you numerous real life examples of parents who dropped out of school during the depression, raised a family of successful children, because they KNEW the value of good education and forced their kids to try hard to make something of themselves. Having decent school helps but a child must have support from home REGARDLESS of the education level of the parent.

Your arrogant statement really says STUPID PEOPLE will raise STUPID CHILDREN. I suppose that is why you want BIG GOVERNMENT to take care of everyone since you have so little faith in human spirit. You and your liberal attitudes are what is helping ruin this Nation. You are a disgrace.

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I have two second cousins that both have genius level IQ's. One of them I've mentioned here before, he plays in Zappa Plays Zappa.

When he was four, his little brother, who was two at the time, learned to read simply by watching Mom teach his older brother. Mom didn't even realize it - a neighbor told her "Ben knows how to read".

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A gifted teacher can sometimes help a child escape many of the effects of a really crappy home environment. Good parenting skills can and will overcome crappy teachers every time. Good parents either take over their child's education or remove the child from a crappy education environment and get him/her into a decent one.

If you have to choose between a good parent and a good teacher as the most important asset a child can have, the parent trumps the teacher every single time.

Obama was 100% correct in saying how important people accepting their parenting responsibilities are to the welfare of the children. Sadly, he dropped that line and has not revisited it when black liberals criticized him for saying that to black parents. If he made that a significant cornerstone of his Presidency along with proposed government reforms to help it happen, I would absolutely rethink voting for him.

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Foxfyre wrote:

A gifted teacher can sometimes help a child escape many of the effects of a really crappy home environment. Good parenting skills can and will overcome crappy teachers every time. Good parents either take over their child's education or remove the child from a crappy education environment and get him/her into a decent one.

If you have to choose between a good parent and a good teacher as the most important asset a child can have, the parent trumps the teacher every single time.

Obama was 100% correct in saying how important people accepting their parenting responsibilities are to the welfare of the children. Sadly, he dropped that line and has not revisited it when black liberals criticized him for saying that to black parents. If he made that a significant cornerstone of his Presidency along with proposed government reforms to help it happen, I would absolutely rethink voting for him.

He said something very similar, if not identical, to that in front of the NAACP the other day.

I think in your example, the parent becomes the teacher; but the necessity for a good teacher remains.

Cycloptichorn

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Doesn't Obama speak arabic?

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rabel22 wrote:

Doesn't Obama speak arabic?

Nope.

Cycloptichorn

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Quote:

I think in your example, the parent becomes the teacher; but the necessity for a good teacher remains.

Cycloptichorn

I think we are all arguing the same thing here,but the only difference is semantics.

We all agree that a good teacher is important, but I think that we are just differing about HOW MUCH difference a teacher makes compared to parents.
We all know people that had parents that didnt finish school, couldnt read very well, etc yet the children grew up to be very well educated and very successful.

My only contention is that Obama did say that a teacher is MORE important then parents, I contend that parents are more important to a childs life and success then teachers.

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Your right MM. Parents have children from birth to 6 years, the most important time in their lives in which to instill the important learning abilities. After children start school parents are still more important than teachers because an active parent makes sure the child is doing his school work. Not all teachers are the paragons of virtue that some try to make them. I had some teachers refuse to cooperate with me when my kid had trouble with new math. I was told that I wasn't smart enough to learn the new math by this teacher and I had to go to a book store in order to get the information I needed to help my kid. Granted not all teachers have the attitude of this teacher but neither are all teachers saints.

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okie wrote: Bush would put him to shame in Spanish.

ha ha ha ha... Bush can't even speak the English language properly, and you're making a statement that you can't even support.

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President Bush can speak Spanish sufficiently to carry on a simple conversation in Spanish--something most Americans cannot do. Is he fluent? Vicente Fox said so but on a gradeschool level.

Jeb Bush, on the other hand, is fluent in Spanish.

Barack Obama at most knows a few common Spanish words and phrases but cannot speak, read, or write Spanish.

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Foxfyre wrote:

President Bush can speak Spanish sufficiently to carry on a simple conversation in Spanish--something most Americans cannot do. Is he fluent? Vicente Fox said so but on a gradeschool level.

Jeb Bush, on the other hand, is fluent in Spanish.

Do you think Jeb is angry that his brother has probably ruined his chances of ever attaining national office, when he is far more qualified?

Cycloptichorn

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I think a requirement for speaking Spanish should not be on the list of required qualifications to be President of the United States or anything else other than a person teaching Spanish or who has a job in which negotiations/conversations with Spanish speaking people in other countries is necessary.

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Foxfyre wrote:

President Bush can speak Spanish sufficiently to carry on a simple conversation in Spanish--something most Americans cannot do. Is he fluent? Vicente Fox said so but on a gradeschool level.

Jeb Bush, on the other hand, is fluent in Spanish.

Barack Obama at most knows a few common Spanish words and phrases but cannot speak, read, or write Spanish.

Since Barak has said that children should be taught Spanish in this country, I wonder if his kids are learning Spanish.
I also wonder why he hasnt bothered to learn a foreign language and become fluent in it?
It seems to me he should lead by example.

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mysteryman wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
President Bush can speak Spanish sufficiently to carry on a simple conversation in Spanish--something most Americans cannot do. Is he fluent? Vicente Fox said so but on a gradeschool level.

Jeb Bush, on the other hand, is fluent in Spanish.

Barack Obama at most knows a few common Spanish words and phrases but cannot speak, read, or write Spanish.

Since Barak has said that children should be taught Spanish in this country, I wonder if his kids are learning Spanish.
I also wonder why he hasnt bothered to learn a foreign language and become fluent in it?
It seems to me he should lead by example.

I don't know whether Obama's kids will be encouraged to take Spanish or not--at their age, they probably aren't, at least yet. I have no problem whatsoever with him saying that a foreign language is a good idea in the school curriculum--I am a strong advocate for that myself. I do have a problem with him saying that the language should be Spanish as opposed to French or Russian or Arabic or Chinese or Latin or other languages that could be useful out there in the world or any of which would expand a student's perspective and understanding beyond his/her own existence.

I have a HUGE problem with him saying that it is more important for Americans to learn Spanish than it is for immigrants to learn English. I think that this is insulting to Americans and sends a massive message that he will have no problem if our culture and people are further fractured and divided and lose their identify as Americans in the sense of what being American has always meant.

I think he is extremely naive that 'immigrants will learn English' without this being made a requirement of immigration. I frequently deal with folks in our area who have been here for years and still can't speak English. If that was a requirement for their receiving their green card or citizenship, they would have learned enough English to get by.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

okie wrote: Bush would put him to shame in Spanish.

ha ha ha ha... Bush can't even speak the English language properly, and you're making a statement that you can't even support.

That has been way exaggerated, ci, and I think Bush does pretty good. And I have been mystified from the very start about the perceived speaking ability of Obama. I have never thought so. Uh, ah, oom, uh...... is about all you get out of him in debates. And he avoids talking to anyone that has tough questions for him, because he doesn't have the answers. As long as he has a teleprompter to tell him what to say, he is okay, but beyond that, he doesn't have it. He's a greenhorn, ci, thats it, nothing more, and he has no credentials as far as I can see. Except "community organizer," thats it.

Now he goes overseas to prove he knows something about it, surrounded by supporters to provide the spin, thats what that is all about, but they better be careful about every word, every question they ask him, because he will flub up big time any time, and then they will have to cover for him.

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okie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
okie wrote: Bush would put him to shame in Spanish.

ha ha ha ha... Bush can't even speak the English language properly, and you're making a statement that you can't even support.

That has been way exaggerated, ci, and I think Bush does pretty good. And I have been mystified from the very start about the perceived speaking ability of Obama. I have never thought so. Uh, ah, oom, uh...... is about all you get out of him in debates. And he avoids talking to anyone that has tough questions for him, because he doesn't have the answers. As long as he has a teleprompter to tell him what to say, he is okay, but beyond that, he doesn't have it. He's a greenhorn, ci, thats it, nothing more, and he has no credentials as far as I can see. Except "community organizer," thats it.

Now he goes overseas to prove he knows something about it, surrounded by supporters to provide the spin, thats what that is all about, but they better be careful about every word, every question they ask him, because he will flub up big time any time, and then they will have to cover for him.

Shouldnt he be able to speak the local language of every country he is going to, or will they all learn and speak english for him?

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I'm with Obama on Spanish (I'd even be with McCain if he said the same thing about Spanish, tho I still wouldn't vote for him) because:

1. Spanish speakers are most of our neighbors in this hemisphere (except for Canada, and most of them already speak fairly decent English), our nearest neighbors, and the largest minority in the country (tho the overwhelming majority are already bilingual or mostly English speakers). They were here first, too, unless you're thinking of learning Nahuatl.

2. They're some of our major trade partners. Learn Spanish and you've got a large leg up on business.

3. Learn Spanish and you can go anywhere in half the world, the Western Hemisphere, and be understood (Spanish speakers tell me they can understand Portugese speakers and vice versa, tho spoken Portugese almost doesn't sound like a Romance language to me, except for occasional words; so good Spanish gets you Brazil too). We're the only place in the world where you can do so much with just two languages.

4. It's probably the simplest language for Americans to learn. It's more regular than English and there are a lot of cognates.

5. It's very important to catch 'em when they're young. If you learn a language before your early teens, you're very likely to end up sounding like a native speaker. Beyond that age, language plasticity drops off sharply. It's much harder to learn, and harder still to develop fluency, and very much harder to speak with a native accent. It's harder yet if you come from a different language family, like Chinese. And harder if you come here say in your 40s or 50s, rather than your 20s. Which is why you find a lot of older immigrants who speak very little English. But their kids sound exactly like you.

Obama has nailed it.

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Obama has nailed what? Selling away the American tradition as an English speaking Nation is the only think he is supporting here.

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donde est el banyo? has gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations.

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McGentrix wrote:

donde est el banyo? has gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations.

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