teenyboone wrote:Foxfyre wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:Foxfyre wrote:Foxfyre wrote:I don't think you hit the rim, Kicky. Try going back and rereading the exchange and I have hopes that you have enough sense to see that.
And taking a cue from McCain's playbook, maybe I should explain, not that I think you are capable of being fair as I never saw you criticize CI when he makes a pointed ad hominem insult much as you do.
I think you would be hard put to find anybody on this forum who has stated that they are considering or have decided to vote for McCain who is really happy with him. McG might be the one closest to that as he has been a McCain supporter ever since I've been on A2K. I rather suspect you won't find a single one who is not critical of McCain in some aspect, however, and most of us are critical in several aspects. I think there is probably not one of us who has not observed the flipflops and commented on them and also criticized issues that he has not flipflopped on. So Cyclops accusation is a lie, intended or unintended, on the face of it.
It simply does not follow that if you don't criticize both in the same post, criticism of one is a blanket endorsement of the one not criticized.
The frequency of your criticisms of McCain is somewhere around, but not actually, zero. You focus quite a bit of fire on his opponent, and rarely if ever have a harsh word for McCain at all.
Given that you understand that McCain has the same, if not worse, aspects of position-changing that Obama does, why have you not called attention to this issue? I mean, we know the answer: because he is a fellow Republican, and you don't really
care that he's changed positions, just as you don't really care that Obama has; it's just an attack you think you can levy, is all.
It's the entire ethos of the Conservative movement at this point: flail about until we find an attack which can touch this Obama guy!
Cycloptichorn
Another opinion you can't back up with anything other than you want to believe it, Cyclop? I believe you will find at least one post on A2K referencing every single problem I have with McCain and there are quite a few of them. I'm not positive about that since I haunt several different boards and this stuff gets discussed on all of them but if you haven't seen my criticisms of McCain you just flat haven't looked.
I rather thought it more appropriate to discuss Obama on an Obama thread, however, and less appropriate to discuss McCain on an Obama thread. But that's just me.
But it's okay for YOU to discuss McCain on an Obama thread! :wink:
No, I didn't think so. Cyclop sort of insisted though.
I believe Obama is moving towards the center to win the southern states in November. Today's article discussing this "issue" even goes further and says Obama is beginning to support Bush's position on many issues. Voters are gonna have a difficult time trying to analyze who Obama really is.
nimh wrote:Quote:It is hardly unusual for a candidate to move toward the middle in a general election; in fact, it is fairly standard operating procedure. That is part of what bothers some on the left.
Ben Austin, a former Clinton White House political deputy and early Obama supporter, called the senator's perceived drift "unnecessary and potentially counterproductive" for a candidate who aspires to be a transformational figure.
"To the extent progressives see him as the Reagan of the left, Reagan didn't tack toward the center," Austin said. "He moved the American electorate to the right."
LA Times
A. That's a pretty tall order for any candidate... let alone the first black nominee. I think progressives should take care not to set the bar too high... or they may find themselves considerably less happy than they would be with a lefty drifting towards center.
B. I'm not convinced Obama is
that far Left in the first place. His voting record could simply be a reflection of a man with huge aspirations and enough sense to know he'll never lead the country if he doesn't please his party first.
I have had that problem since Kricinich dropped out of the race. This elect a democrat no matter what has made me very nervous. If he is a clinton democrat than he is just slightly better than Bush. He seems to me to be a republican lite just as Clinton was. Too much backtracking on issues that are important to me.
So,...
the "black" issue widens...
Obviously, I missed this event when it happened. I've peeked around looking for comments here, and haven't found any--though I'm sure they exist somewhere.
Does anyone agree with Jackson? Is anyone furious with Jackson?
Has this event been brushed under the carpet here?
Should an Obama presidency be used to address "black issues" as distinctly separate?
Did the comment hurt Obama?
At a town hall meeting in Georgia, presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience that, "you need to make sure that your child can speak Spanish." Speaking in Powder Springs, Ga., the Illinois Senator said that the nation's chief priority should not be for immigrants to learn English, but for American children to learn Spanish.
Elitist trash talk.
rabel22 wrote:I have had that problem since Kricinich dropped out of the race..
Kucinich is a douchebag. He signed a letter of solidarity with Hugo Chávez in Venezuela in 2004, amongst many, many other fringe left things he has done.
cicerone imposter wrote:I believe Obama is moving towards the center to win the southern states in November. Today's article discussing this "issue" even goes further and says Obama is beginning to support Bush's position on many issues. Voters are gonna have a difficult time trying to analyze who Obama really is.
Well, whadayaknow, Good Morning, ci, did you just wake up?
The Geritol is just kicking in - or - is that the Ex-lax?
Lash wrote:So,...
the "black" issue widens...
Obviously, I missed this event when it happened. I've peeked around looking for comments here, and haven't found any--though I'm sure they exist somewhere.
Does anyone agree with Jackson? Is anyone furious with Jackson?
Has this event been brushed under the carpet here?
Should an Obama presidency be used to address "black issues" as distinctly separate?
Did the comment hurt Obama?
The universal agreement seems to be that it helped Obama, not hurt him.
Cycloptichorn
cjhsa wrote:At a town hall meeting in Georgia, presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience that, "you need to make sure that your child can speak Spanish." Speaking in Powder Springs, Ga., the Illinois Senator said that the nation's chief priority should not be for immigrants to learn English, but for American children to learn Spanish.
Elitist trash talk.
I hope he keeps lecturing all of us, cjhsa, that will just cost him more votes in my opinion. I hope McCain's tape recorders are running full time.
This makes it more obvious he probably believed most everything his buddy, Wright was shouting from the pulpit.
So, black folks can basically say anything they want, no matter how racist or uncalled for, and it just helps their cause. Am I getting that right?
okie wrote:cjhsa wrote:At a town hall meeting in Georgia, presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience that, "you need to make sure that your child can speak Spanish." Speaking in Powder Springs, Ga., the Illinois Senator said that the nation's chief priority should not be for immigrants to learn English, but for American children to learn Spanish.
Elitist trash talk.
I hope he keeps lecturing all of us, cjhsa, that will just cost him more votes in my opinion. I hope McCain's tape recorders are running full time.
This makes it more obvious he probably believed most everything his buddy, Wright was shouting from the pulpit.
Why? Why does it make it more likely that he believed Wright? Specifically, please.
For I believe that what you are attempting to do is pivot from one issue, to another completely different issue, which is a common tactic of yours.
Cycloptichorn
I get the drift from Obama that somehow there is something wrong with Americans in general, and one example being we don't all speak spanish. It is our fault, that is the message. It is our fault, not immigrants fault for not speaking English. The undertone here, the message I get is that if an immigrant does not succeed, it is very possible our fault because we can't communicate with them in Spanish.
This all goes right along with the central message of Wright, that America is deeply flawed, bigoted, and to blame for most everything wrong anywhere. I find that offensive.
In contrast, in Mexico, they speak Spanish, great, I am all for that, that is the national language, and if I should happen to go there to live, I would learn Spanish, and I would not blame them for not learning English.
okie wrote:I get the drift from Obama that somehow there is something wrong with Americans in general, and one example being we don't all speak spanish. It is our fault, that is the message. It is our fault, not immigrants fault for not speaking English. The undertone here, the message I get is that if an immigrant does not succeed, it is very possible our fault because we can't communicate with them in Spanish.
This all goes right along with the central message of Wright, that America is deeply flawed, bigoted, and to blame for most everything wrong anywhere.
Ridiculous. You are imposing your own thoughts upon Obama; he never said anything even close to what you have said here...
The reason that it's good for kids to be bilingual? It gives them a large advantage in the business world and will only help their lives. It isn't about being against anything, it's about improving everyone's skill-set. It has very little to do with immigrants at all.
What a bunch of bullcrap. You take a few things Obama said, twist them to mean something different completely because 'that's what it sounded like to me,' and then make sweeping pronouncements about the guy based upon your flawed interpretation. And you do this sort of thing
all the time. It's intellectually lazy and not a compelling line of argument in the slightest.
Cycloptichorn
My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it. -- Barack Obama
Yeah right, cyclops, it is a given you will now defend Obama to his last breath, regardless of what he says, but personally I don't need him going around lecturing me about learning another language, thanks, but no thanks. I learned some German once and never used it. I would like to learn Spanish, great, but I have no need and would likely not use it enough to be worth the time to do it. Members of my family know some, but it isn't of monumental importance.
okie wrote:Yeah right, cyclops, it is a given you will now defend Obama to his last breath, regardless of what he says, but personally I don't need him going around lecturing me about learning another language, thanks, but no thanks. I learned some German once and never used it. I would like to learn Spanish, great, but I have no need and would likely not use it enough to be worth the time to do it. Members of my family know some, but it isn't of monumental importance.
It's a given that you will attack Obama no matter what he says, for things that have nothing to do with what he actually said. Right?
You should note that Obama said
nothing about your old ass learning another language.
Cycloptichorn
