Obama '08?

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, and I pay for your health car and for you or your kids to go to college. It works out nicely.

Sweet! What kind of health car?

The "health car" are those such as in California where smog control is taken seriously.

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Nobody ever bought me a car, healthy or otherwise Sad

I actually prefer to have the privilege and ability and opportunity to prepare myself to work and earn as much as I feel up to earning to buy my own though. Health care too.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Nobody ever bought me a car, healthy or otherwise

I actually prefer to have the privilege and ability and opportunity to prepare myself to work and earn as much as I feel up to earning to buy my own though. Health care too.

Don't care what you prefer, really. We need a system which works well for all, not one in which some do very well and some do very poorly.

Cycloptichorn

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But we do not need a system where Peter is robbed to pay Paul. Such a system can always count on the allegiance and undying support of Paul which can put Peter at a huge advantage. And once Peter realizes that it is unprofitable to earn enough for both himself and Paul, Peter probably won't try as hard so everybody has considerably less. I do hope Senator Obama has at least some grasp of that principle.

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Foxfyre wrote:

But we do not need a system where Peter is robbed to pay Paul. Such a system can always count on the allegiance and undying support of Paul which can put Peter at a huge advantage. And once Peter realizes that it is unprofitable to earn enough for both himself and Paul, Peter probably won't try as hard so everybody has considerably less. I do hope Senator Obama has at least some grasp of that principle.

'probably.' That's the problem with your assessment; you have no actual data showing that it is true, only suppositions. And what exactly do you mean by 'not try as hard?' Not try as hard to do what, exactly? Work? I think people will still work the same as they did before...

Nobody is being 'robbed' by Universal health care; and in fact, it's not even clear that you (or, say, the average family) would be paying more money at all, then you currently are.

Basically, I can understand why those who are currently enjoying the system thanks to their status would fight to protect it; you just don't care much about those who are not currently covered, or who are under-insured, or who have crappy insurance. That's a short-sighted view and no way to run a country.

The Peter-Paul analogy you used could easily be put to, say, Social Security, and has before, in fact; it's just as wrong there. SS has been a highly sucessful program which is responsible for much of our advancement over the last 70 years as a society, and I have little doubt that Universal Health Care will do the same.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, and I pay for your health car and for you or your kids to go to college. It works out nicely.

This is just the sort of program I've been looking for! Do I just PM you my address so you can start sending me checks for tuition or would you prefer to send it straight to the school?

You know... books are pretty expensive too...

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jpinMilwaukee wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, and I pay for your health car and for you or your kids to go to college. It works out nicely.

This is just the sort of program I've been looking for! Do I just PM you my address so you can start sending me checks for tuition or would you prefer to send it straight to the school?

You know... books are pretty expensive too...

Yeah, there's a central routing station and a few steps involved - PM your address to the Federal gov't, ask them to start paying for your tuition, pull the lever for Obama, wait somewhere between 8-12 months of processing, and you should get the results you like.

Cyloptichorn

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Talk about paying Peter to pay Paul, the CEOs of this country has been doing that for decades now. Their salaries used to be about 35Xs the average salary of the workers, and now it's over 400Xs more. Put another way, for every $1 an average worker earned at a company, the CEO earned $35, But now, it $400 for each $1 earned by the average worker. And people like Fox wants to make us believe that those earning 11-hundred percent more shouldn't have to pay more taxes. Fox probably lives in another world, because in this country, the USofA, millions of families - middle class and poor - are losing their homes and their cars while the CEOs live high off the hog during a period in which the federal deficit continues to grow, and the interest on those government bonds will be paid by our children and grandchildren. Yeah, that's really fair! Transfer today's spending onto the younger generation, because it's the right thing for our government to cut more taxes for the rich.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, there's a central routing station and a few steps involved - PM your address to the Federal gov't, ask them to start paying for your tuition, pull the lever for Obama, wait somewhere between 8-12 months of processing, and you should get the results you like.

Cyloptichorn

Oh, if only it were that easy...

On a serious note, though... You keep saying that Republicans have to learn to get along? Why should we learn to get along with policies and ideas we don't agree with? Did you learn to get along with a Republican President, Congress and House? Heck no you didn't. You fought tooth and nail the whole time... and it looks like the pendulum is swinging back in your favor.

Well I certainly plan on fighting just as hard if Obama becomes pres. It certainly won't be the end of the party if we don't get along. And I certainly hope others do the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives always having to be the ones meeting in the middle while my liberal counterparts never give in in and only try to take more and more and more and more.

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What a bunch of BS. The government has distributed tax money for almost 100 years or more. The difference is that the republicans make sure the rich and powerful git most of the tax money while "some" democrats let the middle class and the poor have a share of the wealth. Look at the Bush government for the last 7 !/2 years. The republicans preach fiscal restraint until they get into office and than go on a spending spree that favors the rich while lowering the tax burden on the rich. A sure way to cause the dollar to devalue and inflation to increase at an accelerating rate.

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Quote:

On a serious note, though... You keep saying that Republicans have to learn to get along? Why should we learn to get along with policies and ideas we don't agree with? Did you learn to get along with a Republican President, Congress and House? Heck no you didn't. You fought tooth and nail the whole time... and it looks like the pendulum is swinging back in your favor.

Untrue. The Dems DID learn to get along with Bush and the Republican-led Congress. They DID pass many bills which the base didn't like. If the Republicans insist on Filibustering each and EVERY BILL that comes up - something the Dems never, ever did on a regular basis - or calling for 10 adjournment motions in the House EVERY DAY in order to slow legislation, they are going to pay a severe price for it next year.

Public sentiment goes back and forth on issues, for sure. On the issues of health care; taxation; and foreign policy, the public is supporting the Dem position in much greater numbers then the Republican position. My advice is to learn to get along with the public position, or find yourself marginalized for some time. Either way is cool with me, really, but your side would be well served to end the childish bullshit and get down to business. The job of the opposition party is not to try and use every trick in the book to stop every single bill that comes up, yet that's exactly what your elected leaders are currently doing. It is appropriate from time to time, but overuse of a tool ruins it's effectiveness and makes your bunch look like asses.

Cycloptichorn

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A reference to Obama's visit to Germany (and other points in Europe this summer), he may not get the photo op he was shooting for:

Quote:

WHOLE ARTICLE HERE

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This is totally irrelevant to anything, but it is in my notebook. Use it or lose it.
Did you know that the state of KY and my state of VA are the only ones in the country that strip convicted felons of ever being allowed to vote?
Even after serving their time in jail, they can not ever vote again unless, in the case of VA, they apply to the governor for restituition of their ability to vote.
Their are 300,000 convicted felons in VA. In 2006, 4000 asked to be reinstated to the voter roll. The number this year is expected to be in the range of 7000.

I can source this if asked; I hope my reputation is good enough.

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rjb, In reading your post and the increase in convicted falons, I wonder if it has anything to do with our economy? I have a tendency to think so.

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And heroicly attempting to drag the thread back on topic here, shall we consider the pitfalls of creative fund raising?

State is asked to clarify Web solicitation
The fundraiser on Barack Obama's national website might be considered a raffle in Minnesota. Not so, his campaign says.
By RANDY FURST, Star Tribune
July 8, 2008 - 11:00 AM

The head of the Minnesota Gambling Control Board said that a solicitation for funds on the national website of the Barack Obama presidential campaign may constitute a raffle, which is a violation of Minnesota gambling laws.

Tom Barrett, executive director of the board, said he will ask the state Department of Public Safety to look into the matter.

The Obama campaign said Monday night that the solicitation does not constitute a raffle. "We are not conducting a raffle of any kind," said Nick Kimball, a spokesman for the Obama campaign in Minnesota.

The Obama website, which is soliciting funds of up to $2,300, says anyone who makes a contribution to the Obama campaign of $5 or more between now and July 31 "could be one of 10 supporters chosen to meet Barack backstage" in Denver.

It further says that the 10 selected supporters can bring a guest and will be flown to Denver to spend two days at the Democratic Party national convention, including hearing Obama's speech on Aug. 28.

Barrett said he received a phone call from someone who had seen the website, and after reviewing it, decided to contact the Department of Public Safety.
MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE

With a disclaimer that I have no problem with raffles, if this isn't a 'raffle', what is it?

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From nonprofit law prof blog:

April 26, 2008
State Board Blocks Charity Raffle for Being Too Large

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports that the Minnesota Gambling Control Board has blocked a proposal by the CLIMB Theatre, a section 501(c)(3) nonprofit theater company, to raffle off a $1.4 million house. The Theatre had asked the Board to waive the the normal $100,000 annual limit on amounts raised by a single charity through charitable raffles. The Theatre had hope to raise a total of $900,000 by selling $20 raffle tickets, with $200,000 going to the Theatre and the remaining $700,000 going to a variety of other nonprofit groups. The article further reports that the Minnesota legislature is considering legislation to eliminate the $100,000 limit and to instead limit individual prizes to no more than $50,000 each, and that at least some Board members felt it would have been inconsistent to approve the proposed raffle when the Board had already expressed support for the new $50,000 prize limit.

This report highlights the importance of such gambling activities for many nonprofits. For example, it notes that more than 1400 Minnesota nonprofit organizations raise income from raffles, bingo, and pull-tabs, and it is likely that this reliance is mirrored in other states. For example, I recently discovered the local South Bend, Indiana chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police raised more than $3 million in a single year from bingo, although after taking accounts its bingo-related costs of $2.9 million it only had net revenues of approximately $100,000, according to its most recent IRS Form 990.

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okie wrote:

teenyboone wrote:
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
'Told who to vote for?'

You presume knowledge where you have none, Fox. How do you know these people are told who to vote for? Or that they actually vote for these people, once in the booth?

It's just another tired Republican trope, oft repeated but little verified.

FD is right - you don't know what you are talking about, in the slightest. I've done plenty of voter registration work myself, much of it in what would accurately be described as slums and ghettos, and we never told anyone who to vote for, ever. In fact, we weren't legally allowed to even talk about it with them unless they asked us direct questions about the candidate, iirc.

Cycloptichorn

Did you ask for ID's cyclops, and did you verify if they were already registered either there or somewhere else? How did you know you didn't sign up a bunch of people illegally? Or did you care?

In my precinct, you walk up to the registrar, state your name and that's it!
If you are registered, your name is in the book! Anything else is illegal!
If your name has been deleted, you can ask for a provisional ballot! That's it! Apparently no one has asked YOU to verify YOURSELF, so why should anyone else be asked? You've got a lot of nerve! These are the tactics used by "Jim Crow", throughout the South, before the Voting Rights Act was passed!

I wasn't referring to voting, I was referring to becoming registered to vote. It has been a long time since I registered, but I think I had to provide an I.D. to prove I was who I said I was, and that I was a resident of the county. Sheesh, what is so terrible about that, and unreasonable?

And providing I.D. to vote is not a bad idea as well, to show you are the person on the voter registration rolls.

#1 - You need to read the damn Constitution, then
#2 - Read the fricking Bill of Rights!

Are you so cowed that you don't know what your rights as a citizen are? Do you care? What a fool! Did you know that you can't be arrested for no reason or to be stopped for no reason? Cops are so corrupt until, they become judge and jury, while they kill people while in police custody!

Do you read the newspapers and have you heard of police brutality? That's YOUR tax dollars at work, while the "protect and serve", do everything BUT! They think they're above the law in New York. When guiliani was the mayor, the cops had tee-shirts that said, "We OWN the night", then pumped 41 bullets into an African, reaching for his wallet to ID himself and the cops claimed they thought his wallet was a gun!

Guilani and Bernard Kerik, 2 crooks with badges; "Perfect together", as we say in Jersey! Bernard Kerik; nominated for the Homeland Security chief, until they found out that he was involved in a shady "pay for play" scheme! The son of a prostitute and a philanderer! Guiliani hates Italians so much, he broke up the mafia, he was born into!

You need to read more. These are but 2 horror stories of the many that make up the NY/NJ area. If you can make it here, you can make it, anywhere! Cool

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jpinMilwaukee wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, there's a central routing station and a few steps involved - PM your address to the Federal gov't, ask them to start paying for your tuition, pull the lever for Obama, wait somewhere between 8-12 months of processing, and you should get the results you like.

Cyloptichorn

Oh, if only it were that easy...

On a serious note, though... You keep saying that Republicans have to learn to get along? Why should we learn to get along with policies and ideas we don't agree with? Did you learn to get along with a Republican President, Congress and House? Heck no you didn't. You fought tooth and nail the whole time... and it looks like the pendulum is swinging back in your favor.

Well I certainly plan on fighting just as hard if Obama becomes pres. It certainly won't be the end of the party if we don't get along. And I certainly hope others do the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives always having to be the ones meeting in the middle while my liberal counterparts never give in in and only try to take more and more and more and more.

Just look at the makeup of the Supreme Court, then ask again who compromises too much.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:
By the way, I see Obama is really into conservation. The Pepsi Center isn't good enough by itself, he has to fire up Invesco Field, the stadium, too. I would like to see the bill for wiring these places for all of this confusion, and the electric bill for all of that, and this after we already know who is the nominee. Do we have to witness thousands of people waving change signs for how many days, and then listen to his speech saying "uh, ah, oom, ah," etc., and does it take a stadium to say it?

Your fear is showing. Pretty funny

He's going to kick McCain's ass, and you Conservatives are going to be faced with a choice: learn to go along or be even further marginalized. My guess is that you will choose the hard road and have to learn some hard lessons.

Cycloptichorn

I want to know how the dems can afford moving to Invesco Field when they are already 11 million dollars in the hole for the convention.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=95312&catid=339

Quote:

DENVER - The Democratic National Convention Committee (DNCC) says it can afford to move Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama's acceptance speech to Invesco Field at Mile High despite an $11 million funding shortfall.

The DNCC announced Monday the speech will move from Pepsi Center to Invesco Field, but said it didn't know how much the move would cost.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9801331

Quote:

(snip)

Quote:

Yet with all of these problems they can afford to move to Invesco?
I would love to see how they are juggling the books for this.

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