Obama '08?

H2O_MAN wrote:

So why do you pick Obama?

It can't be his résumé or experience... what is it?

1) Why can't it be those things? I think that a man of his education is nothing to dismiss. I don't think that his career is so limited. The only reason to think that it is limited is because we are being told what to think experience should be define by. The sheer volume of experience will never compensate for well executed experience. Nobody had more experience than Dick or Donald, and it ended up meaning nothing.
2) To add to that, his political platform. It doesn't make sense for me to support someone like John McCain anymore. I have zero confidence that McCAin represents my interests.
3) His message.
4) His ideas.
5) Lastly, he is inviting to the American citizen. He encourages us to be active and a part of what is happening. Even though I'm here in DC, before that, he made it feel like it wasn't such a far place away and that my opinions mattered to the process. He defies a certain part of me that feels cynical about politics, and after hearing many of his speeches thus far on his campaign I have began questioning if I too should one day run for a public office. The man is electric and very inspirational.

And for that, I can give a damn about some republican-sound-byte-attack-machine calling his supporters "Obamaniacs." I didn't give my support freely, he had to earn it. If I am driven by mania then they are driven by shame: The last 8 years were a catastrophe.

T
K
O

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teenyboone wrote:

McTag wrote:
On our TV screen we continually see and hear of unrest, mayhem and violence in much of Africa- Ethiopia, Sudan, Congo, and now again in Zimbabwe.

Leaving aside the historical reasons for much of this, do you think these images hurt Mr Obama's candidacy? I do.

So did WWI or WWII bother you? The Europeans are civil only because the US placed sanctions on them and still has a presence over there in Germany, England, France, Korea, Japan, Belgium, not to mention the territories that the US maintains bases on. Do those occupations hurt McSame? I think so!

Did any of that gratuitous and pointless insult have anything to do with the point I was trying to make?
Seemingly not, so it was stupid as well.

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McTag - I'm not following your point. Can you clarify why you think those things are at all relevant to either candidate's appeal? Wouldn't they reflect more on still President Bush?

T
K
O

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My point was that societies run by and for black people in Africa are portrayed as being invariably disfunctional and violent, and so by extension of this, a black candidate in another country is labouring under a handicap, whether consciously or unconsciously placed there.

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Don't many groups have their stigma? Whites do too. Should we honestly waste our time with a concern like this?

Thanks for the clarification though.
K
O

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Diest TKO wrote:

Don't many groups have their stigma? Whites do too. Should we honestly waste our time with a concern like this?

Thanks for the clarification though.
K
O

It's up to you whether you see your time being wasted on a concern like this.
Don't waste any time if you'd rather not. Smile

Certainly African-American groups are extremely concerned about the portrayal of their race on television and on film, and spend a good deal of time and effort in correcting what they see as an imbalance and a negative (no joke intended) image.

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McGentrix wrote:

teenyboone wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
What about putting liberals in a room, giving them everything they've always wanted, then watch them spontaneously combust when they realize that's all there is.

That could power a few cities.

This sounds exactly like the REPUGS, who have COMBUSTED all over the place! Scandal, after sexually explicit scandal, from the "Family Values" group laced with "Patriotic Pride", where everyone has sex with little boys, (pages), or in public bathrooms at airports, or really kinky Christians, "get it on", with HIGH-PRICED PROSTITUTES, using TAX DOLLARS! Then, they trot their STARK RAVING MAD wives out, to listen to their MEA CULPAS!

Give me a card carrying LIBERAL any day! Give me a LIBERAL, who doesn't HAVE to PAY for it! They're usually GOOD-LOOKING and easy on the eyes! Imagine waking up next to CHENEY, or heaven forbid, RUMMY! They should all be impeached!

Like Spitzer you mean?

Just like him and Vitter! Vitter's wife and her Leopard Skin dress she wore, when he DENIED it all! Rolling Eyes

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I'm severely disappointed that Obama supports the FISA compromise with telecom immunity. Seriously, this feels dangerously close to a deal breaker for me and I have to wonder how he would be voting if he weren't running for president. I can't vote for a Republican after the last 8 years, but I could be convinced to stay home if he keeps doing this kind of ****.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I'm severely disappointed that Obama supports the FISA compromise with telecom immunity. Seriously, this feels dangerously close to a deal breaker for me and I have to wonder how he would be voting if he weren't running for president. I can't vote for a Republican after the last 8 years, but I could be convinced to stay home if he keeps doing this kind of ****.

The part that upsets me is the section that immunes past wrong-doings. They broke the FISA laws, and should be prosecuted, not immunized.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I'm severely disappointed that Obama supports the FISA compromise with telecom immunity. Seriously, this feels dangerously close to a deal breaker for me and I have to wonder how he would be voting if he weren't running for president. I can't vote for a Republican after the last 8 years, but I could be convinced to stay home if he keeps doing this kind of ****.

I suspect that what we've thought all along is true: that several members of the top Dem leadership knew what was going on all along, and knew more then even has been let on so far; the Bush admin. has threatened to take them all down together if the immunity isn't passed and we don't move forward with the bill.

Craven leaders make it clear that they don't wish to go to jail and use the prospect of losing the next election b/c of it to get others to go along.

I'm upset about the whole thing. It's the Republican-lite era of Dem leadership still ruling the day; those who were complicit with the bad guys are still our leadership...

I imagine it was a tough choice for Obama. The issue is a clear political winner, but do you win if a bunch of your own party's leadership gets hurt, and it impairs your chances of winning in the Fall? All in all disappointing.

Cycloptichorn

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Even if your suspicion is true, there will also have been several more leaders from the Republican party who were complicit. Obama could make a stand here safely. The Dems who went down wouldn't be going down by themselves and it wouldn't be interpreted at all as a party scandal but rather an old guard scandal. Even John Kerry tried to filibuster. John Kerry! I mean really, where is Obama's leadership on this?

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It's all very disgusting!

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FreeDuck wrote:

Even if your suspicion is true, there will also have been several more leaders from the Republican party who were complicit. Obama could make a stand here safely. The Dems who went down wouldn't be going down by themselves and it wouldn't be interpreted at all as a party scandal but rather an old guard scandal. Even John Kerry tried to filibuster. John Kerry! I mean really, where is Obama's leadership on this?

I guess what I mean is, the Dem leadership never would have let this go through. They will do what is necessary to protect their own asses.

It wouldn't look so good with Obama fighting his own party leaders leading up to the election....

I'm not happy about it.

Cycloptichorn

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So instead he throws his lot in with them. He could have thrown in with Biden, Dodd, Kerry, and others. Harry Reid, for chrissakes! Doesn't he count as a party leader?

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FreeDuck wrote:

So instead he throws his lot in with them. He could have thrown in with Biden, Dodd, Kerry, and others. Harry Reid, for chrissakes! Doesn't he count as a party leader?

I would wager that Reid only opposed this deal b/c he knew it was going to pass anyways.

Who knows? Like I said, I'm not happy about it.

Cycloptichorn

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I don't get this one to the extent I'd like.

He seems to be saying that he will take out the immunity part:

Quote:

It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/obama_backing_fisa_compromise.php

Andrew Sullivan, a libertarian who likes Obama but likes McCain too and is happy to criticize Obama when he sees cause for it, seems fine with it. He characterizes Obama's stand as about where he (Sullivan) wound up.

Hilzoy, who I haven't been reading for a long time but who I don't think I've disagreed with yet, titles her post about it "Bleccchh":

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/06/bleccchh.html

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McCain: Chicago Gun Ban Infringes On Rights
Republican Presidential Candidate Singles Out Chicago In Statement Praising Supreme Court Ruling
Gun Rights Ruling May Change Chicago Law
ARLINGTON, Va. (CBS) ― U.S. Sen. John McCain said Thursday that the Supreme Court ruling in favor of gun ownership showed that the Chicago handgun ban has "infringed on the constitutional rights of Americans."

The presumptive Republican presidential nominee called the ruling a "landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom in the United States."

Tell us what you think of the ruling and gun control.

"For the first time in the history of our Republic, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms was and is an individual right as intended by our Founding Fathers," McCain said in a statement.

He criticized Sen. Barack Obama for not signing a bipartisan amicus brief supporting the ruling later issued by the Supreme Court, and singled out the Chicago ban in describing what the ruling should change.

"Today's ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller makes clear that other municipalities like Chicago that have banned handguns have infringed on the constitutional rights of Americans," McCain said in the statement.

He also targeted a campaign comment by Obama that said residents of struggling small towns "get bitter, they cling to their guns or religion."

"Unlike the elitist view that believes Americans cling to guns out of bitterness, today's ruling recognizes that gun ownership is a fundamental right -- sacred, just as the right to free speech and assembly," McCain said.

Obama has supported gun control in both the Illinois State Senate and the U.S. Senate.

http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/mccain.handgun.ban.2.757688.html

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Early on he said he would fight to remove it, but nobody expects it to get removed and he's said he'll vote for it even if it doesn't come out. It's a big enough deal to me that I sent him a comment through his senate website.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Early on he said he would fight to remove it, but nobody expects it to get removed and he's said he'll vote for it even if it doesn't come out. It's a big enough deal to me that I sent him a comment through his senate website.

Good for you, FreeDuck; I'm gonna do the same.

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This is the auto response I got from the Obama campaign:

Dear Tak,

Thank you for contacting Obama for America. The volume of messages we're receiving has gone up since Barack's victory in Iowa. While we cannot respond individually to over a thousand messages per day, the level of interest and thoughtfulness of the comments reflected in these communications are very gratifying. Your thoughts on our campaign and America's future are greatly appreciated.

Individual citizens like you are the foundation of this campaign.

Since his February 10 announcement speech in Springfield, Illinois, Barack has spoken consistently of working together to reclaim the meaning of citizenship, restore our sense of common purpose and rally the power of millions of voices to demand long overdue change. We hope you will explore our website, www.BarackObama.com, to view that speech in its entirety and learn more about Barack, his record and his plans.

If you're writing because you want change, we need you to help us fight for it. Please sign up here to volunteer:

http://my.barackobama.com/acvolunteer

And you can get started from home right now. We've built a set of easy-to-use web tools that empower you to get further involved right now. Click My.BarackObama.com, where you can find events near you, connect with neighbors who support Barack, create your own blog, and do much, much more.

And if you're not sure you want to get involved, and are writing to express a concern or disagreement, we appreciate that as well. The open discussion we want to facilitate cannot take place without hearing from people expressing a wide range of views.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

The Correspondence Team
Obama for America

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