okie
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 12:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Local school boards should be in charge of their local schools, not the federal government.

Amen Amen Amen Amen, ci. Hallilujah and all the rest. Are you waking up from the fog of liberalism that wants Washington to solve every problem?

I will remind you however that whoever controls the purse strings controls what it is being spent upon. We can start by eliminating, yes, eliminating the Federal Department of Education and all federal funding. If you are serious, I will expect you to agree by putting your money where your mouth is, and is we want the local school boards to run schools, then locals must fund the schools 100%, and run the schools 100%.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 01:13 pm
okie, Once you get an idea into your brains, it sticks like glue doesn't it? I'm not a "liberal." I'm an independent who votes for the candidate who best meets my ideal in terms of what they say and advocate for. I'm a liberal when it comes to universal health care, but a conservative when it comes to government spending - especially on our war in Iraq at 12 billioin every month. That money is needed at home. Got that? Not really that difficult.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 02:00 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The "failed educational system" can be credited to Bush with his NCLB mandate without funding it.


lol Of course it can! The school systems were all perfect before Bush came into office, right?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 02:11 pm
They were rather better then they are today.

We didn't have any of that 'teaching to the test' bullshit back when I was a kid.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 02:14 pm
fishin wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
The "failed educational system" can be credited to Bush with his NCLB mandate without funding it.


lol Of course it can! The school systems were all perfect before Bush came into office, right?


Nobody claimed it was "perfect," but if you had kept your head out of that dark place, you would have noticed.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 02:15 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, Once you get an idea into your brains, it sticks like glue doesn't it? I'm not a "liberal." I'm an independent who votes for the candidate who best meets my ideal in terms of what they say and advocate for. I'm a liberal when it comes to universal health care, but a conservative when it comes to government spending - especially on our war in Iraq at 12 billioin every month. That money is needed at home. Got that? Not really that difficult.


I don't know about okie, but I got it. Thanks for the info. Did not know that. And you're right, it wasn't difficult.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 02:33 pm
U.S. teens still lag behind in science and math
15-year-old Americans score below average in latest international test
Video


updated 3:18 p.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 4, 2007
WASHINGTON - U.S. students are lagging behind their peers in other countries in science and math, test results out Tuesday show.

The test, the Program for International Student Assessment, was given to 15-year-olds in 30 industrialized countries last year. It focused on science but also included a math portion.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 03:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, Once you get an idea into your brains, it sticks like glue doesn't it? I'm not a "liberal." I'm an independent who votes for the candidate who best meets my ideal in terms of what they say and advocate for. I'm a liberal when it comes to universal health care, but a conservative when it comes to government spending - especially on our war in Iraq at 12 billioin every month. That money is needed at home. Got that? Not really that difficult.

Sorry ci, my apologies only to a point because I have gotten the impression that you align most of the time with Democrat or liberal positions on most issues, and I think that is a fairly accurate assessment of your politics. If you can point out more than being fiscally conservative, I might tend to believe your claim a little more.

The war is not really a clearcut case of liberal / conservative, as many conservatives also oppose the war, but almost all liberals oppose it I think, based on their dislike of Bush.

Universal health care is a better measurement of your politics than the war I would think. If you oppose federal intervention in education, why would you favor federal intervention of health care? The congressional restaurants are going broke and have to be propped up with millions, so what makes you think that Congress can run health care if they can't even manage their own restaurants profitably?

Citing statistics about the failing education system is fine, but the fact is Republicans are calling for big reforms, while Democrats favor throwing more money at the current system. We already spend 10 grand per student or more. Would 20 grand fix it? 30 grand? I would like it if you gave me 15 students and 10 grand each, I think we could build a one room school buy a computer for every student every year, and have plenty of money left over, and pay the teacher handsomely.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 03:14 pm
okie wrote: Universal health care is a better measurement of your politics than the war I would think. If you oppose federal intervention in education, why would you favor federal intervention of health care? The congressional restaurants are going broke and have to be propped up with millions, so what makes you think that Congress can run health care if they can't even manage their own restaurants profitably?

Really. Our country spends the greatest amount on health care while 47 million Americans live without any coverage. That makes me a liberal?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 03:15 pm
Also, of all the industrialized countries, the US is the only one without universal health care. Get the picture yet?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Also, of all the industrialized countries, the US is the only one without universal health care.


Yes, and we are better off because we don't have it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:35 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Also, of all the industrialized countries, the US is the only one without universal health care.


Yes, and we are better off because we don't have it.



Well, shorter life expectancy can be a benefit, I guess....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:52 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Also, of all the industrialized countries, the US is the only one without universal health care.


Yes, and we are better off because we don't have it.


Yes, tell that to all the families who must choose between food on the table or medical care. Health care for all benefits everybody.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
You just now wake up to that, cyclops? So do you think we need millions of immigrants from Turkey and Pakistan, and if people are flying here from there, do you think they might deserve more scrutiny, or is that demonizing them?


Demonizing. One of the best ways to get people to hate you even worse, is to treat them as if they deserve suspicion and hate.

You gotta be a friend, to make friends...

Cycloptichorn


Would you say that if a convicted pedophile moved into your neighborhood and wanted to befreind you and your children?

Or would you mistrust and doubt that person?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:54 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
You just now wake up to that, cyclops? So do you think we need millions of immigrants from Turkey and Pakistan, and if people are flying here from there, do you think they might deserve more scrutiny, or is that demonizing them?


Demonizing. One of the best ways to get people to hate you even worse, is to treat them as if they deserve suspicion and hate.

You gotta be a friend, to make friends...

Cycloptichorn


Would you say that if a convicted pedophile moved into your neighborhood and wanted to befreind you and your children?

Or would you mistrust and doubt that person?



Ah, yes.

Can you remind us what all Muslims are convicted of, mysteryman?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
You just now wake up to that, cyclops? So do you think we need millions of immigrants from Turkey and Pakistan, and if people are flying here from there, do you think they might deserve more scrutiny, or is that demonizing them?



People deserve more scrutiny if they hold unfavorable views of the United States and US policy?

Interesting idea, okie.


You see, oe, people like okie doesn't want freedom of speech or freedom of movement based on his personal, imagined, fear of the unknown. That he has lived in the US for all his life hasn't taught him that the individual is always innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't matter what our Constitution or Bill of Rights guarantees; it's meant only for the few republicans who understand who their enemies are.


Actually, a person is PRESUMED innocent.

Unless you are willing to concede that OJ was totally innocent of killing his exwife, or that Robert Blake was innocent of murdering his wife also.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 05:06 pm
old europe wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
You just now wake up to that, cyclops? So do you think we need millions of immigrants from Turkey and Pakistan, and if people are flying here from there, do you think they might deserve more scrutiny, or is that demonizing them?


Demonizing. One of the best ways to get people to hate you even worse, is to treat them as if they deserve suspicion and hate.

You gotta be a friend, to make friends...

Cycloptichorn


Would you say that if a convicted pedophile moved into your neighborhood and wanted to befreind you and your children?

Or would you mistrust and doubt that person?



Ah, yes.

Can you remind us what all Muslims are convicted of, mysteryman?


I didnt say that ALL or even many of them were convicted of anything, so dont make that stupid attempt at an argument.

I was simply responding to one comment made by Cyclo, where he said...

Quote:
Demonizing. One of the best ways to get people to hate you even worse, is to treat them as if they deserve suspicion and hate.

You gotta be a friend, to make friends...


So are you saying you would not be suspicious of a convicted pedophile that wanted to be friends with your children?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 05:08 pm
The word "presumed" doesn't change anything. That you can identify a case in which the "presumed" murder got away with murder, doesn't change the legal system of this country. That you can conclude others presume OJ is innocent based on his trial goes beyond what is available in the legal system of this country. Not only are innocents found guilty, but those who have committed crimes have been found "not guilty."

Learn to live with it if you can; whatever humans do is not perfect.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 05:09 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:

Really. Our country spends the greatest amount on health care while 47 million Americans live without any coverage. That makes me a liberal?
Wake up and smell the coffee.


Where does that number come from?
And of that 47 million, how many of them CHOOSE to not have health coverage because they dont think they will need it?
How many of those 47 million are young children, covered by their parents plan?
How many of them are active duty military, covered by the govt, instead of having their own plan?

I believe that 47 million number is misleading, and the true number is much less.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 05:14 pm
Where does that number come from?
Ask Obama.

And of that 47 million, how many of them CHOOSE to not have health coverage because they dont think they will need it?
Who the heck wants health insurance? We'd rather do without, so we can die at an earlier age.

How many of those 47 million are young children, covered by their parents plan?
If they're uninsured, they're not covered. DUH!


How many of them are active duty military, covered by the govt, instead of having their own plan?
Refer to above answer.

I believe that 47 million number is misleading, and the true number is much less.
Proof?
0 Replies
 
 

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