Obama '08?

Hilarious brouhaha on CNN right now with Mayor Clay from Gary.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
George - I think you miss the point. How the Asians, Hispanics, etc vote will either prove or disprove the racial transcendence concept. Perhaps even more so than the black and white communities.

I'm not surprized that you don't care.

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My reference to the term racial transcendence referred only to the historical issue between Blacks and Whites (or non Blacks if you wish). It is simply an unhappy fact of our history. Beyond that I don't think an emphasis on the various "racial" divisions or categories so offen assigned to people whether Hispanic, Asian or other is either beneficial or useful. Getting beyond these things is one of the most important challenges we face.

We should strive and hope for an environment in which people can live their lives as they choose and continue the process of assimilation and creation of a new, evolving American culture that has been the source of our best achievements.

Vote Democratic.

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CNN projects Indiana for Hillary. 99% of the vote in. The narrow victory means virtually nothing.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
George - I think you miss the point. How the Asians, Hispanics, etc vote will either prove or disprove the racial transcendence concept. Perhaps even more so than the black and white communities.

I'm not surprized that you don't care.

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My reference to the term racial transcendence referred only to the historical issue between Blacks and Whites (or non Blacks if you wish). It is simply an unhappy fact of our history. Beyond that I don't think an emphasis on the various "racial" divisions or categories so offen assigned to people whether Hispanic, Asian or other is either beneficial or useful. Getting beyond these things is one of the most important challenges we face.

We should strive and hope for an environment in which people can live their lives as they choose and continue the process of assimilation and creation of a new, evolving American culture that has been the source of our best achievements.

"We?"

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Roxxxanne wrote:

Hilarious brouhaha on CNN right now with Mayor Clay from Gary.

Yeah, I was entertained.

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Diest TKO wrote:

"We?"

I assume you are an American.

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georgeob1 wrote:

I assume you are an American.

I believe there may be a hyphen involved, georgeob.

And that makes all the difference, for some.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
"We?"

I assume you are an American.

Your obtuse reply tastes of Ticomaya's brand of arrogance.

The problem is that while white Americans may have interest in racial issues, but they to often leave the "challenge" to the non-whites. This statement comes with the admission that I have been, in many cases, amazed at the efforts of my white friends to advocate for all people.

But from you, I'm not impressed. I don't even really believe you. You tell me that you have no interest in the Asian vote because it doesn't drive the election politics.

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Ticomaya wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I assume you are an American.

I believe there may be a hyphen involved, georgeob.

And that makes all the difference, for some.

I was wondering when you'd crawl out from under the bridge. Perfect timing.

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Diest TKO wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
"We?"

I assume you are an American.

Your obtuse reply tastes of Ticomaya's brand of arrogance.

The problem is that while white Americans may have interest in racial issues, but they to often leave the "challenge" to the non-whites. This statement comes with the admission that I have been, in many cases, amazed at the efforts of my white friends to advocate for all people.

But from you, I'm not impressed. I don't even really believe you. You tell me that you have no interest in the Asian vote because it doesn't drive the election politics.

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Nothing at all obtuse about it, unless you are referring to the distinction that Tyco suggested. I had guessed that, but, as I had already indicated, I don't think that is significant when it comes to judging or merely guessing the reactions of an individual person.

The "challenge" of assimilation has been successfully faced by the German, Irish, Polish, Jewish, Italian and many other identifiable groups who have come here. It continues with Hispanic immigrants, the Vietnamese and many others who are coming here now - no difference at all. It is indeed the immigrant group that faces the primary challenge of assimilation, to which you refer (but that was not the meaning of my use of the word - I was referring to the challenge all Americans - you included - face in overcoming tribal loyalties and prejudgements). Immigrants, in turn have their own influence on the continuously evolving culture we all share.

Do you have any useful suggestions for the improvement of the process?? Can you point to any country in the world that does this, on a comparable scale, better than we?

I have no idea of what you mean by your last paragraph. I don't consider the "Asian" vote because I'm not aware of any patterns in it that affect me or anything important to me. More importantly, I try not to judge people or their actions by such characteristics, and do so only when I am confronted by an obvious collective activity on their part - something I generally regard as regrettable or unfortunate.

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Quote:

The "challenge" of assimilation has been successfully faced by the German, Irish, Polish, Jewish, Italian and many other identifiable groups who have come here. It continues with Hispanic immigrants, the Vietnamese and many others who are coming here now - no difference at all.

You don't see any difference in the assimilation challenges of European and those of Asian or Mexican-Americans (Los Morenos)?

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Not a Soccer Mom wrote:

Quote:
The "challenge" of assimilation has been successfully faced by the German, Irish, Polish, Jewish, Italian and many other identifiable groups who have come here. It continues with Hispanic immigrants, the Vietnamese and many others who are coming here now - no difference at all.

You don't see any difference in the assimilation challenges of European and Asian or Mexican-Americans (Los Morenos)?

There were observable differences in the assimilation experiences of all the groups that have come here, however, in general, the experiences were all of the same character. Overall I don't see any major qualitative difference in the challenges current immigrants face. Much of course depends on the immigrants themselves, the priorities they set, and the speed with which they choose to adopt the common language and culture.

Perhaps you should consult some of the anti immigrant writings and organized activities of "know nothings" and other like groups of the late 19th century, when we were being flooded with immigrants from Germany, Ireland, Russia, Poland, and Austria-Hungary.

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You missed the point.

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georgeob1 wrote:

[

Perhaps you should consult some of the anti immigrant writings and organized activities of "know nothings" and other like groups of the late 19th century, when we were being flooded with immigrants from Germany, Ireland, Russia, Poland, and Austria-Hungary.

Yes, I must have missed the chapter in which they were interred in concentration camps.

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I think I fully answered the question you posed - no major difference.

Perhaps you could clarify the unanswered issue.

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Before my suggestions some observations.

1) You not I refer to assimilation. This mind-set is has many flaws in it. It is to say, come to the US, and when you get here, take off all your clothes. Shed your culture and adopt ours. We aren't interested in letting you influence our culture. This is a one way street.

2) The challenges that Europeans face with integrating into the United States certainly exist, but show me where in our present day nation you see a systemic political what-do-we-do-about-it when more white Christians enter the country. I think that it's about protecting the status quo. See also Chinese Immigration act of 1885. At the time, the thoughts were that if the Chinese immigration wasn't curved, that the country would become primarily Asian.

My suggestions? Stop trying to make the American culture rigid and and pre-defined. When you stop and think about it, why is it such a big deal that we have two strong presidential candidates that are black and female respectively? There just humans right? Why is race and gender even worth talking about? Because in the US, it's not the status quo. Why does the US have a status quo? doesn't it seem to go against what the country inherently stand for?

The Asian vote DOES effect things important to me. Your attitude only illustrates the flaws in the foundation of your beliefs.

If you hold your political beliefs to be sound then that means (or should mean) that you believe your ideas do not just benefit you but instead benefit all. If you don't care about th Asian, Hispanic, etc vote, then it's basically a lame way of saying.

"Screw you."

That's fine. I only expect you to vote in your own interests. I just don't see how you can pretend to have the footing to tell anyone else how to vote etc.

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Not a Soccer Mom wrote:

[Yes, I must have missed the chapter in which they were interred in concentration camps.

If you want to make a special distinction for the Japanese who were interred during WWII that's OK by me. However, I don't think that unhappy action was simply a result of their assimilation, or that anything comparable to it or its real origins occured with any other groups.

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Diest TKO wrote:

The Asian vote DOES effect things important to you. Your attitude only illustrates the flaws in the foundation of your beliefs.

EDIT

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georgeob1 wrote:

Not a Soccer Mom wrote:
[Yes, I must have missed the chapter in which they were interred in concentration camps.

If you want to make a special distinction for the Japanese who were interred during WWII that's OK by me. However, I don't think that unhappy action was simply a result of their assimilation, or that anything comparable to it or its real origins occured with any other groups.

I also missed the chapter about the European Immigrant Anti-Miscegenation Act.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Not a Soccer Mom wrote:
[Yes, I must have missed the chapter in which they were interred in concentration camps.

If you want to make a special distinction for the Japanese who were interred during WWII that's OK by me. However, I don't think that unhappy action was simply a result of their assimilation, or that anything comparable to it or its real origins occured with any other groups.

The flaw in your argument is that my grandparents who were in the camps weren't trying to be japanese, they were trying as hard as they could to be blue blood americans.

hotdogs
coca-cola
baseball
buy a ford

And even after being put in the camps they wanted to do nothing more than prove their loyalty. My grandfather and his two brother all were eager to enlist in the army and help out.

And after the war was over, and they were let out, how were they treated?

I'll give you as many guesses as you like, but if it takes more than one, you're probably not going to get it no matter how many tries.

"Assimilation" is not the goal. Perhaps I'd agree to the idea of acclamation.

My grandparents learned that endorsing the idea of assimilation only sold themselves out and that it would never be met in good faith.

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