Obama '08?

This Good Cop-Bad Cop routine by Obama and Wright would be effective IF Obama had left the church years ago.

But he didn't.

He cannot credibly distance himself from Wright.

For 20 years, he submitted himself and also subjected his children to the hatemongering that Wright presents to the congregation at TUCC.

And it will continue to haunt him.

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Obama's speech today did a good job of distancing himself from Wright. I applaud his words and respect his position.

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McGentrix wrote:

Obama's speech today did a good job of distancing himself from Wright. I applaud his words and respect his position.

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I mean that in a good way.

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I think Wright/Obama is a deal. (Translation: worth a look)

When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

If a pastor says something that raises the hairs on the back of your neck, you can't stay. By sitting there under his teaching, you are an adherent--a student. A contract.

So, either Barack basically agreed with the crap, or his wife had him by the balls and SHE agreed with it...or Wright didn't start being so ridiculous until he discovered Obama was getting him extra attention..

Didn't Wright just start opting for African garb? Hmm?

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Lash wrote:

I think Wright/Obama is a deal. (Translation: worth a look)

When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

If a pastor says something that raises the hairs on the back of your neck, you can't stay. By sitting there under his teaching, you are an adherent--a student. A contract.

So, either Barack basically agreed with the crap, or his wife had him by the balls and SHE agreed with it...or Wright didn't start being so ridiculous until he discovered Obama was getting him extra attention..

Didn't Wright just start opting for African garb? Hmm?

No - if you take a look at film clips from sevral years ago, he was sporting a daishiki (sp?) then.

I was with Wright right up until his 'Press Club' appearance. I even defended the Moyers interview. Now he's looking to me like someone trying to hang on to his 15 minutes regardless... of anything.

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McGentrix wrote:

Obama's speech today did a good job of distancing himself from Wright. I applaud his words and respect his position.

And..... he did this because he wanted to or he had to? Obviously he had to. If he had done this 20 years ago, it might have been because he chose to and wanted to. Better late than never, but I would say its awful late to mean anything.

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I don't usually get involved in political stuff here at A2K, i'm just not well enough equipped to hang with the big dawgs in that regard, but I do want to respond to this by Lash (though i still wub you Wink

)

Lash wrote:

When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

If a pastor says something that raises the hairs on the back of your neck, you can't stay. By sitting there under his teaching, you are an adherent--a student. A contract.

I just want to say that when my pastor says something that I disagree with (a) if it's NOT bible/spirituality related, I shrug it off. I disagree with people about many things, a disagreement with my pastor isn't a 'special' type of disagreement (b) if it's bible or spiritual and i disgree with something he says I do my own research for my own answer and interpretation (this is what believers are supposed to do anyway...read/research the bible for yourself)

If I feel that we're having CONSTANT disagreement in views on things that aren't related to my spiritual life, then I wouldn't necessarily leave the church, I just know to let his non spiritual views inone ear and out the other. If i'm getting what I need in regards to the Word, then that's where I'm going to stay until my spiritual being is no longer being fed there.

A pastor (at least in my view) is not the person who's views in any way influence mine. I'm adult enough to make up my own mind about things especially when it comes to racial matters, politics and so forth. I don't quite see why anyone would insinuate that because barack obama felt his spiritual needs were being met by the pastoring of Rev. Wright that he took his political, wordly, racial and other views from that man's beliefs.

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It's amazing what a politician will do when the political winds begin blowing in the wrong direction. Take a 20 year friend, mentor and a 'like family' acquaintance and drop them like a hot rock.

It's hilarious to watch these two dumbasses knife each other.

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Lash wrote:

I think Wright/Obama is a deal. (Translation: worth a look)

When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

If a pastor says something that raises the hairs on the back of your neck, you can't stay. By sitting there under his teaching, you are an adherent--a student. A contract.

So, either Barack basically agreed with the crap, or his wife had him by the balls and SHE agreed with it...or Wright didn't start being so ridiculous until he discovered Obama was getting him extra attention..

... or the Obamas, like most people I dare say, just did not share your definition of what it means to be a member of a congregation.

You've kept leaving congregations whenever the pastor said stuff that offended you; fine. I can see that; it's admirable even in a sense. But others don't, and stay part of a congregation even if they disagree with some of the stuff the pastor says. Because they think the congregation does great work, or because the pastor also says stuff that makes them think, or simply because they have become part of the community, made friends, and dont want to abandon that. And there's nothing particularly outrageous about that either.

Your definition that "sitting there" in a church makes you "an adherent--a student" and that it implies "a contract" that way is interesting - but it's hardly the standard issue way of looking at it, is it? I doubt most believers agree with you - think of all those pro-choice Catholics for example, who stay with their church for many reasons even if they hardly adhere to the priest's opinions about abortion. Or read how the hawk Marty Peretz evocatively explainswhy he still attends a synagogue where they're all about reconciliation with the Palestinians.

Not saying that your way of looking at it is wrong; just saying that it's fairly non-standard. So no, just because he didnt leave the way you would have done when Wright said stuff he found objectionable, doesnt mean that he must have agreed with it, or that Michelle agreed with it. It just means that they're like many other people and dont look at it like you do. Dont see attending a congregation as a "contract" that automatically makes you an "adherent" of everything the preacher says.

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Does anyone have the answer to this question - How come Wright is sabotaging Obama? Is it unintentional because he is just an out of control individual and this is what he does and who he is? Or is it because he is knowingly throwing him under the bus by continuing to make a fool of himself? Or is it because he just loves the limelight and he receives it by making outlandish statments? Does he really not want to see Obama succeed, is it a self defeating mindset that permeates this man so completely that he wants to believe a man like Obama could never be elected, so he is going to subconciously help him fail? He strikes me as somewhat intelligent, but also an extremely angry guy, so what is driving him to do what he is doing?

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nimh, that was explained so much better than I.

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I liked what you had to say too, though, Onyx... thanks for stopping by!

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Well Onyxelle,

If it helps to clear up that bit of puzzlement about why some seem to take such offense that Obama could stay at that church even though his preacher had some loopy ideas...

You might notice that those so insistent and outraged that Obama didn't leave 20 years ago are the one's least likely to vote for him for ANY reason.

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McGentrix wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's sad that things came to this. Obama tried to do right by the guy, but his hand was forced by Wright's insistence on making an ass out of himself on national tv, again.
Yup. Just as most of us would do if that loud mouthed, somewhat racist Uncle we all have and love took advantage to boast his blathering.

I still don't understand why anyone gives a rat's ass what Wright has to say. Most of my life; my sister's politics were the polar opposite of my own... and that affected my love and respect for her not one iota. One of my favorite ladies too, saw politics the opposite as well... and was heavily vested in the Russian Orthodox religion to boot. Even her near certainty that I would one day burn in hell had little effect on our mutual love and respect. Her preacher was pretty sure America had it all wrong as well. Was I supposed to give a rat's ass? Why?

This is so much silliness. Ever since the "the war" my grandfather hated Asians. So? I don't. But I never denounced him. In fact; I loved him very much. Does this mean I'm a racist, unfit to hold public office? Huh?

Comparing a relative to a pastor is apples to oranges Bill. You don't get to choose your relatives and it reflects your judgement who you choose as a pastor or other religious figure.

If you worshipped satan, yes that would reflect on your ability to hold office. If you were a Hare Krishna, that would reflect on your ability to hold office. If you were a follower of Jim Jones, that would reflect on your ability to hold office.

People care about what Wright has to say because Obama chose to attend his sermons for 20 years. He is 47 now, that means that since he was 27, he has had one single main religious influence in his life. That reflects Obama's judgement which impacts his ability to be President.

Well said

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mysteryman wrote:

This may be old news, but its still interesting,
It seems that Obama's talk doesnt match his actions

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080429/COL05/804290314/-1/columnists

Quote:
But how does Obama back up his talk? In 2007, the Obamas earned $4.2 million.

They donated about $240,000. That's 6 percent - well above the national average of 2.2 percent.

But in 2005, he donated 4 percent. And in 2001 and 2002, the Obamas gave less than half of 1 percent.

(snip)

Quote:
Since 2000, the Clintons earned $109 million and donated $10.2 million - 10 percent

(snip)

Quote:
John McCain's wife, Cindy, owns businesses worth more than $100 million, but they file separate tax returns and hers have not been released, so it is impossible to make a direct comparison to Obama and Clinton. On his income of $405,409, he donated $105,467 in 2007.

That's 25 percent of his income. The year before, he gave 26 percent.

So the man that talks about helping those in need apparently doesnt follow up his words with action.

I dont buy that, not going on the numbers above.

The Clintons earned over $100 million; Obama, in contrast, earned $4 million. 25 times less. I'd say that makes them giving away 10% and him giving away 6% more than comparable. Especially if that 10% the Clintons donated was mostly to their own foundation.

Meanwhile, back in 2001-2002, the Obamas just gave 0,5%. Thats not much. But as far as the comparison with the Clintons and McCains goes, what your quote doesnt mention is that their income was much less back then too. Just a small percentage of the wealth the Clintons and McCains enjoyed.

And as for McCain, please. He donated 25% of that sliver of income that the McCains enjoy that's filed under his name, yeah. But as a couple they're tremendously rich - many times richer than the Obamas. And yet the Obamas donated $240,000; and McCain, under his own name, $105,000. So the question of who ends up looking better all depends on how much money the McCains donated in her name, doesnt it? Unless it's many hundreds of thousands of dollars, they dont come off looking very well at all in this comparison. But yeah, since they wont release her tax returns, we'll never know, will we?

That whole McCain tax return is a joke. They refuse to release her returns, while his returns include only a sliver of the income they enjoy. Never mind that the Republicans blazed sound and fury when the Kerrys tried to refuse to release any info about Theresa Heinz-Kerry's returns.

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onyxelle wrote:

I don't usually get involved in political stuff here at A2K, i'm just not well enough equipped to hang with the big dawgs in that regard, but I do want to respond to this by Lash (though i still wub you )

Lash wrote:
When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

If a pastor says something that raises the hairs on the back of your neck, you can't stay. By sitting there under his teaching, you are an adherent--a student. A contract.

I just want to say that when my pastor says something that I disagree with (a) if it's NOT bible/spirituality related, I shrug it off. I disagree with people about many things, a disagreement with my pastor isn't a 'special' type of disagreement (b) if it's bible or spiritual and i disgree with something he says I do my own research for my own answer and interpretation (this is what believers are supposed to do anyway...read/research the bible for yourself)

If I feel that we're having CONSTANT disagreement in views on things that aren't related to my spiritual life, then I wouldn't necessarily leave the church, I just know to let his non spiritual views inone ear and out the other. If i'm getting what I need in regards to the Word, then that's where I'm going to stay until my spiritual being is no longer being fed there.

A pastor (at least in my view) is not the person who's views in any way influence mine. I'm adult enough to make up my own mind about things especially when it comes to racial matters, politics and so forth. I don't quite see why anyone would insinuate that because barack obama felt his spiritual needs were being met by the pastoring of Rev. Wright that he took his political, wordly, racial and other views from that man's beliefs.

Would you allow your children to be subjected to the teaching coming from Jeremiah Wright?

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okie wrote:

Does anyone have the answer to this question - How come Wright is sabotaging Obama? Is it unintentional because he is just an out of control individual and this is what he does and who he is? Or is it because he is knowingly throwing him under the bus by continuing to make a fool of himself? Or is it because he just loves the limelight and he receives it by making outlandish statments? Does he really not want to see Obama succeed, is it a self defeating mindset that permeates this man so completely that he wants to believe a man like Obama could never be elected, so he is going to subconciously help him fail? He strikes me as somewhat intelligent, but also an extremely angry guy, so what is driving him to do what he is doing?

Probably a bit of all of that, yeah.

That and, of course, the urge to want to finally defend himself and his reputation after voicelessly seeing his name dragged through the mud on all the broadcast networks for weeks on end.

I mean, even if you or most people here agree that his views are unpalatable, he obviously wont agree. He thinks of himself as a decent human being with very good reason to believe what he does. So to see himself being denounced and attacked on national TV for all this time must have really gotten to him.

I mean, who knew about him before? And now every American knows him as that nutty preacher. Imagine it was you. It's hardly unfathomable why he felt the urge to come out and defend himself, no matter how inconvenient that is for Obama. Egoistic maybe, yeah, but not exactly incomprehensible.

Whether he's doing a good job of defending himself, well urr.. thats another question... But you asked about his motivation. I do agree that all the things you mention play a role. But even without all that it's not exactly hard to imagine why he would want to speak up, is it?

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onyxelle wrote:

nimh, that was explained so much better than I.

Thanks but I liked your post myself! Do pass by more often..

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First, I teach my children that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Even Rev. Wright.
Second, I teach my children what I believe I right and is wrong and if they hear a message or a phrase or belief that we disagree with as parents, we let them know we disagree and we let them know why.

"subjecting" them sounds like I'd be allowing them to hear whatever someone says and let them go on not understanding the context of what was said and why I agree or disagree with it. That's not so. Everything my girls here is an opportunity for them to learn and grow their minds, and this is no different.

In this, they're aware of the Rev. Wright issue, and some of his opinions and we've all discussed it as a family. They're following the whole politcal race as we are, and ask questions about everything they hear and read about it.

For what it's worth, most churches that I'm aware of have a childrens church (at least the ones I've been to, black or white) and the children don't hear the main sermon anyway.

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