Obama '08?

georgeob1 wrote:

Wright appears to be a serious man who probably reflects the attitudes of a substantial fraction of our Black population. Though I don't pretend to fully understand his ideas and his motivation for them, I doubt seriously that he is a revolutionary, bent on the destruction of our system and way of life. There really is enough of a gulf between the life experiences of Blacks & Whites in this country to make it difficult for either group to fully understand the perspective of the other. I also believe that gulf is disappearing fast enough so that there are real generational gaps among both Blacks and Whites in their perceptions of these issues. It is noteworthy that Obama and Wright are of decidedly different generations and backgrounds. It isn't hard for me to believe that Obama might have valued his experience at the Trinity church, and, at the same time, discounted some of the perceptions of older leaders in it, including Wright. In fact, Obama has already said as much himself.

Really, really well said. All of it was, actually, but this part especially.

Yeah, things aren't looking very good right now.

I don't think it's really just Wright though. I think it's Pennsylvania, and the aftermath -- for whatever combination of reasons, I've seen WAY too much analysis along the lines of "Hillary's comeback" and "Why Obama can't close the deal." For whatever combination of reasons, the media narrative has gotten out of hand and it's very pro-Hillary.

(And I say "out of hand" because I don't think it hews very closely to the facts. Hillary had to make a major stand in Pennsylvania, and she didn't. She won, but by 9 points, not 15 or 25.)

The Wright stuff is certainly not helping. I just don't think that's the only thing going on.

sozobe wrote:

Yeah, things aren't looking very good right now.

I don't think it's really just Wright though. I think it's Pennsylvania, and the aftermath -- for whatever combination of reasons, I've seen WAY too much analysis along the lines of "Hillary's comeback" and "Why Obama can't close the deal." For whatever combination of reasons, the media narrative has gotten out of hand and it's very pro-Hillary.

(And I say "out of hand" because I don't think it hews very closely to the facts. Hillary had to make a major stand in Pennsylvania, and she didn't. She won, but by 9 points, not 15 or 25.)

The Wright stuff is certainly not helping. I just don't think that's the only thing going on.

I see another "swift boat for truth" issue being replayed here, because Obama has not given enough tough responses to the attacks.

Isn't it funny how this works? Obama has never said anything that anyone can show anywhere at any time that would make him appear other than a hardworking, decent man who believes in America and wants to make it better. But to some he still has a long way to go to prove he's NOT an america-bashing, militant, closet muslim with perverted ideas and ideology.

... because Obama has not given enough tough responses to the attacks.

snood wrote:

Isn't it funny how this works? Obama has never said anything that anyone can show anywhere at any time that would make him appear other than a hardworking, decent man who believes in America and wants to make it better. But to some he still has a long way to go to prove he's NOT an america-bashing, militant, closet muslim with perverted ideas and ideology.

It's based on "ill conceived perception" of who Obama is by relating another person's rhetoric to the candidate. There's no cure for stupid.

FreeDuck wrote:

Really, really well said. All of it was, actually, but this part especially.

Yes, I was going to say the same thing. Bravo, george.

I think the generational gap is an especially important point.

We're not talking about lepers and prostitutes, good grief, I am tired of twisted analogies here. I think the time has come to call it for what it is, and as far as I am concerned, racism and bigotry is just as repugnant, no matter who is practicing it, and preaching it. We should have absolutely no problem denouncing it for what it is, and the failure to do so is not anything to be proud of. I want no part of it.

But nobody.....and I do mean NOBODY.....would believe that a candidate sat in Jerry Falwell's church or John Hagee's church or some other controversial preacher's church for 20+ years without feeling comfortable there and NOBODY would believe that the candidate had never heard the more outrageous rhetoric of such pastors and/or didnt know about it. Especially when he described the pastor as his spiritual mentor and put that pastor on his campaign staff.

Can you honestly say that this would not color your perceptions of the candidate especially as controversial sound bites were aired and printed again and again?

And once it became a problem for the candidate, to THEN say that he disagreed with his pastor and had he known about all that he would have left would ring a bit hollow don't you think? Would you believe him?

sozobe wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Really, really well said. All of it was, actually, but this part especially.

Yes, I was going to say the same thing. Bravo, george.

I think the generational gap is an especially important point.

Thank you both. Actually I thought the Irish bit was the best part.

I'll probably still vote for McCain, though in six months anything's possible.

Foxfyre wrote:

But nobody.....and I do mean NOBODY.....would believe that a candidate sat in Jerry Falwell's church or John Hagee's church or some other controversial preacher's church for 20+ years without feeling comfortable there and NOBODY would believe that the candidate had never heard the more outrageous rhetoric of such pastors and/or didnt know about it. Especially when he described the pastor as his spiritual mentor and put that pastor on his campaign staff.

Can you honestly say that this would not color your perceptions of the candidate especially as controversial sound bites were aired and printed again and again?

And once it became a problem for the candidate, to THEN say that he disagreed with his pastor and had he known about all that he would have left would ring a bit hollow don't you think? Would you believe him?

That's a good point. And speaking strictly for myself, what bothers me about this isn't so much the association with Wright as the echos of "I didn't inhale" and "I never had sexual relations with this woman."

Or, "I was sleep-deprived and misspoke".

eoe wrote:

Or, "I was sleep-deprived and misspoke".

Good one. Who said that? Hillary?

okie wrote:

We're not talking about lepers and prostitutes, good grief, I am tired of twisted analogies here. I think the time has come to call it for what it is, and as far as I am concerned, racism and bigotry is just as repugnant, no matter who is practicing it, and preaching it. We should have absolutely no problem denouncing it for what it is, and the failure to do so is not anything to be proud of. I want no part of it.

What you are saying is that Obama's willingness to talk to people who may be racist or bigoted reflects poorly on him. I am saying that dismissing those people out of hand would reflect poorly on him. We all know racists. Some are overly racist and some are closet racists. Only a few are extreme racists, most are only slightly racist. If you refuse to talk to someone, you will never convince them they are wrong. You can have a conversation with someone, even like them, and not agree with everything they believe. And my analogy is not twisted. I think it is very relevant. Not to compare any politician with Jesus, but if He can sit down with sinners against the will of the political and religious establishment, who are you to say that it is wrong?

On a final note, what statements from Wright do you find racist? Those I've heard (and I'll admit I haven't sought them all out) seem to rail against the government and to accuse the government of oppression, but I don't recall a racist rant. (I'll do my own search, but if you have a favorite, a link would be helpful.)

sozobe wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Really, really well said. All of it was, actually, but this part especially.

Yes, I was going to say the same thing. Bravo, george.

I think the generational gap is an especially important point.

Thank you both. Actually I thought the Irish bit was the best part.

I'll probably still vote for McCain, though in six months anything's possible.

George sure has his moments.

And it must be FreeDuck who has changed, for she sure ain't no straight talker like McCain today.