Obama '08?

real life wrote:

Would you allow your children to be taught by a man who calls America a terrorist nation, no different from al-Qaeda?

Obama did, and does.

When did he say that? And since when was Wright an elementary school teacher?

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Just when I was semi-defending Obama's erstwhile praise for Reagan (or was it just an acknowledgement of Reagan's political skills?) to DTOM on the Wright thread, Obama makes a very similar rhetorical swerve to the right on Fox News. Clear echoes of his praise for how Ronald Reagan promised to restore "dynamism" and "entrepeneurship" after the "excesses" of the 60s and 70s. Cant help think he must just mean it.

Quote:

Obama stops the clock on Fox

nimh < not happy.

The teacher compensation issue I can see, and I also just dont know enough about it. The putdown he now repeats of the alleged old left overreach of the 60s and 70s, on the other hand, I think is inappropriate. I mean, it's the US left we're talking about, it's not like the government ever went more than a little left of center anyway. If those were 'excesses' I dont expect much from what an Obama administration would be.

But it's also just strategically counterproductive. If you're going to attempt something as huge as universal health care coverage yourself (as, whatever you think of his plan, Obama says he will), is it really such a smart move to first go on air to legitimise these small-government talking points, about how evil and enormous the state intervention policies of yore were? How are you going to push for progressive policies with a renewed role for government oversight, if you've first yourself done your bit in cementing this notion that government=bad, market=good? Isnt that mining your own path?

But it's the second para that's just egregious. "[W]hat if you simply set some guidelines, some rules and incentives for businesses, let them figure out how they're going to reduce pollution"? Is he serious?

After eight years of the Bush admin gutting objective government oversight of business in general, and the way the EPA, specifically, was turned into a politicized, self-sabotaging mockery, actively discouraged to fulfill its regulatory and oversight role on environmental pollution; Obama thinks it's a swell idea to validate the "let business figure it out" approach? To echo that hey, yeah, the "smarter way" of protecting the environment is actually just to, you know, set some guidelines and incentives and leave the rest up to business? What, because that has proven to be so effective in combating climate change?

Argh. I much prefer Obama over Hillary for many reasons, but this is just stupid, substantively and strategically. If you want to seriously attempt to do something about climate change, for example, against what will be deeply entrenched Republican and corporate resistance, the last thing you should do is to hand them their arguments in advance already.

I mean, I know he was probably just pandering to the Fox audience. But even that doesnt make sense to me. He has a lead among indies already anyway; his weakness in these primaries has been among loyal Democrats. How are they going to appreciate this?

Later on in the Fox interview, Obama said:

Quote:

"There are a lot of liberal commentators who think I'm too accommodating"

Well, hell yeah. <grumpy>

</rant>

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FreeDuck wrote:

real life wrote:

Would you allow your children to be taught by a man who calls America a terrorist nation, no different from al-Qaeda?

Obama did, and does.

When did he say that?

Listen to it here

http://election.newsmax.com/wright_usterrorists.html

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Nimh, I'm encouraged every time I see an Obama supporter deeply criticize their chosen candidate. I understand that you still support him, but I'm encouraged that some (I'm still not convinced that it is 'many') can take an objective look at this guy. I know you've always been this way, and you're not the only one who is, but it is refreshing and needs to be pointed out to those who do not support Obama right now....so that we may feel more comfortable about supporting him in the future.

Now if you could only get some other supporters to tone down the rhetoric........

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Would you have respect for me if I spouted off the nonsense uttered by Rev. Wright?
Yes sir, I would.

Fair enough, O'Bill.

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teenyboone wrote:

Okie,
Honestly, I'm not really interested in how Black Protestants preach to their flock because for one thing, I am Roman Catholic. Who cares how Rev. Wright preaches to his flock? Jerry Falwell and the rest of the PTL Club, do the SAME thing! Listen to Pat Robertson extoll his political views on their flock, his stand on abortion or stem cell research, which I don't agree with or the teaching of "creationism", whatever the hell, that is!

If I want to read about Creation, I read Genesis! Scientifically, I look at DNA, under a microscope! You have to keep an open mind. I believe God created everything. I don't know how but I just believe. I also believe that Science has advanced with God's help to help mankind from catastrophic disease. Do you agree? Many childhood diseases are prevented from the discovery of new vaccines, through research.

I think the hoopla over Obama's spiritual advisor is just that; an excuse to say that a Black man, can't be elected. You know what? Maybe you're right, but let those who want to vote for him over Hag Hillary, do so! Now the crazy heifer wants to debate Obama on the flat bed of a truck!

I can barely type for laughing at this crazy B*tch, for taunting someone! She's just over the top and I see why Saturday Night Live, is having a field day with her! So you want her answering the phone at 3AM? What about McBush? See what I mean?

You actually have some good points, I agree with you about Hillary. But I do disagree about all of this to keep a black man from being president. I would love to have a black man president, but only if he is a conservative, and there are a good many I would support over a Democrat, thats for sure. I just think the Democrats got over confident because they were looking for an alternative to Clinton.

Bottom line, for me its about political beliefs, not race. I think it is very unfortunate that the Democrats have turned this whole thing into something about race or gender, and it won't be pretty.

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What sickens, frustrates, and infuriates Finn?

Efforts to convince us that Jeremiah Wright is really a decent guy.

Efforts by erstwhile Conservatives to acknowledge Wright is a decent guy.

He's BLACK ---- let's stipulate this fact.

Let's also stipulate that anyone with half a brain who is also BLACK is not above criticicism.

I don't really care whether he is BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW or RED, he is a mean spirited, self-absorbed, insecure wretch.

Perhaps he doesn't beat his wife, ignore his children and refuse to contribute to charitable funds. So what? So do hundreds of millions of other Americans.

He has chosen a position that differentiates him from the average citizen, and, in fact, he adores such a position, and so by his own choice, he is not to be measured against the virtues and flaws of the average citizen.

He has positioned himself, much like the Catholic priests that Lefties abhor, as morally superior to the rest of us.

If he expounded conservative ideology the Lefties would be screaming bloody murder about him.

He is not someone who will contribute to racial reconciliation.

Perhaps his anger is well founded, but it is all consuming. Those who will help us as a society to move beyond our flaws will not be those who cannot divest themselves of their anger.

His pseudo-intellectual theology is a joke, and any intellectual amongst us would acknowledge this except that they cannot divorce themselves from politics.

Anyone who listened to his answers at the National Press Club this morning cannot but conclude that he is not a reasoned player in the national game.

Is he smart? Of course he is, but so what?

Can he be eloquent? Perhaps, but so what?

Are we, as a whole, really prepared to excuse someone who is outrageously offensive only 25% of the time?

If we are, let's try and be consistent for Christ's sake.

I'm OK with the notion that he is free to express whatever idiocy in which he believes. God Bless him, but spare me the crap about the horrors of the idiots with which you don't agree.

This isn't about mean-spirited, pathetic Wright, it is about Obama.

Senseless defense of Wright's outrageous comments is a pathetic defense of Obama.

Defend, if you can, Obama's relationship with Wright, because who really cares about an angry, defeated minister who places virtually everything above the message of Christ?

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Okay, that's it! I've had enough!

All the blatantly liberal speeches, the morally superior rhetoric, the politically-charged theology, the offensive pandering to Fox's audience...

I am DEFINITELY not voting for Jeremiah Wright.

Nope.

No way, no how.

<psst....whispers in ear>

Oh.

He's not running for President?

Well then. Who cares what the **** he says.

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Eva wrote:

Okay, that's it! I've had enough!

All the blatantly liberal speeches, the morally superior rhetoric, the politically-charged theology, the offensive pandering to Fox's audience...

I am DEFINITELY not voting for Jeremiah Wright.

Nope.

No way, no how.

<psst>

Oh.

He's not running for President?

Well then. Who cares what the **** he says.

Oh how clever - especially that space bit.

We care what he says, or we should, because Obama has identified him as his spiritual mentor.

Not enough for you?

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Not even close... and I still don't care what his butcher, his baker or candlestick maker's politics are, either... in case you were going to ask.

Eva's bit was clever and she's right. Wright's not running for President.

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No. Not nearly enough.

I have a spiritual mentor myself. But we are definitely not on the same political wavelength. I disagree with his views on many things, and he knows it. Our debates have clarified my thinking on dozens of subjects. We care for each other deeply, and we respect each other enough to allow ample room for disagreement.

I don't think it's such an unusual relationship.

Perhaps it's not unlike that of Obama and Wright.

Each should be judged on their own words and actions, not those of the other.

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Finn - It has been asked before in this thread, and I'd like ot hear your response.

"Because of Rev Wright's influence, what practical fears do you have about what Obama would do in office?"

Answer specifically about what types of policies you are affraid of that would be directly related to Rev Wright.

T
K
O

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Oh! Thanks, Bill!

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Diest TKO wrote:

Finn - It has been asked before in this thread, and I'd like ot hear your response.

"Because of Rev Wright's influence, what practical fears do you have about what Obama would do in office?"

Answer specifically about what types of policies you are affraid of that would be directly related to Rev Wright.

Now there's a good question that, throughout all this pompous indignation, I havent seen one conservative poster answer... good luck with that.

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The Wright thing seems to be having an effect on his compaign now when before it didn't.

The Impact of Wright

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Yeah, things aren't looking very good right now.

I don't think it's really just Wright though. I think it's Pennsylvania, and the aftermath -- for whatever combination of reasons, I've seen WAY too much analysis along the lines of "Hillary's comeback" and "Why Obama can't close the deal." For whatever combination of reasons, the media narrative has gotten out of hand and it's very pro-Hillary.

(And I say "out of hand" because I don't think it hews very closely to the facts. Hillary had to make a major stand in Pennsylvania, and she didn't. She won, but by 9 points, not 15 or 25.)

The Wright stuff is certainly not helping. I just don't think that's the only thing going on.

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I agree that it's the media narrative that's troubling.

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okie wrote:

teenyboone wrote:

Okie,
Honestly, I'm not really interested in how Black Protestants preach to their flock because for one thing, I am Roman Catholic. Who cares how Rev. Wright preaches to his flock? Jerry Falwell and the rest of the PTL Club, do the SAME thing! Listen to Pat Robertson extoll his political views on their flock, his stand on abortion or stem cell research, which I don't agree with or the teaching of "creationism", whatever the hell, that is!

If I want to read about Creation, I read Genesis! Scientifically, I look at DNA, under a microscope! You have to keep an open mind. I believe God created everything. I don't know how but I just believe. I also believe that Science has advanced with God's help to help mankind from catastrophic disease. Do you agree? Many childhood diseases are prevented from the discovery of new vaccines, through research.

I think the hoopla over Obama's spiritual advisor is just that; an excuse to say that a Black man, can't be elected. You know what? Maybe you're right, but let those who want to vote for him over Hag Hillary, do so! Now the crazy heifer wants to debate Obama on the flat bed of a truck!

I can barely type for laughing at this crazy B*tch, for taunting someone! She's just over the top and I see why Saturday Night Live, is having a field day with her! So you want her answering the phone at 3AM? What about McBush? See what I mean?

You actually have some good points, I agree with you about Hillary. But I do disagree about all of this to keep a black man from being president. I would love to have a black man president, but only if he is a conservative, and there are a good many I would support over a Democrat, thats for sure. I just think the Democrats got over confident because they were looking for an alternative to Clinton.

Bottom line, for me its about political beliefs, not race. I think it is very unfortunate that the Democrats have turned this whole thing into something about race or gender, and it won't be pretty.

Okay,
Here's what I said in another forum:

I totally agree with what is said here. Please go to:

http://www.nbccongress.org/black-catholics/default.asp?linkref=footer

and find out that there are over 200 million Catholics of African descent, throughout the world, but in the US, Protestantism, is the predominant religion of African-Americans. In order for me to learn this, I was taking an advanced English Course in college and everything I thought I knew about my race, was corrected, in the course of this 1 semester course! I was absolutely floored about religion brought with the slaves and how slaves were forced to practice Christianity, as well as the American Indians, who were already here. Americas' indigenous people. That said:

Jeremiah Wright, does NOT begin to speak for Christians of African descent and should be careful who he claims to speak for! To clump us all with him, is in itself an abomination! We are multi-cultural, multi-faceted and have adapted to the environment of the areas, to which we find ourselves a part of, whether it be the North, South, East or Western Regions of this country, so I have no idea, what this particular man of color, is talking about! I am very upset that he would clump us all with him, as though we are in Hitler-like, lockstep! I myself, was born and raised in New Orleans, speak French, cook Creole, as opposed to Cajun, whatever that is, but have lived in the East for over 37 years!

My entire family, was/is Roman Catholic, all 7 generations of us. I am of the 5th generation, from slavery. Most of my people were never slaves but a few were! I can't imagine myself, being anything other than Roman Catholic, as Jews maintain their faith! I wonder what country I really am living in, due to all of the racial rhetoric churned up by the emergence of a quiet, educated, mixed-race young man, who seems to not have the baggage that so many politicians have! It's a shame, because we might have gone somewhere forward for a change instead of showing our TRUE colors!

_________________
Rolling Eyes

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Gotta agree with that, Soz. CNN's been cheerleading a "double digit" win, that never took place. The 9.2, predominantly from old white people in a predominantly old white state shouldn't really be cause for celebration. Statistically; she should have dominated there. My guess is they're keeping the story alive by describing it as a closer race than it is. That's what you do I suppose if you sell news for a living.

The few times I've turned on FOX; they appear to be full time trying to destroy Obama. They must fear him because they sure as hell don't like Hillary.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I agree that it's the media narrative that's troubling.

It's the backlash that's about to come, that's troubling... Cool

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