Obama '08?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Paul Krugman has done something unusual with Obama's remarks about rural Pennsylvanians being bitter: He has investigated their merits. Krugman's concluion is unflatering:

Paul Krugman wrote:

Mr. Obama's comments combined assertions about economics, sociology and voting behavior. In each case, his assertion was mostly if not entirely wrong.

Full Story

Krugman has morphed into an anti-Obama hack of late, so there's hardly anything surprising about this.

Cycloptichorn

But his argument still has merits. Not that it moves me from the Obama to McCain camp, but you can't dismiss his argument just because he is on the other side of the fence. The "bitter" part is fine, but the "clings" to guns and religion and xenophobia part is off. Krugman makes that point well.

For the most part they are optimistic, gentle, gracious, hospitable people without a shred of bitterness in evidence. I think the average small town person will be far more likely to vote for the candidate who speaks well of America and Americans and who holds up ideals of initative, self respect, accountability, and opportunity instead of images of victimization and hopelessness. And I think most small town Americans would prefer government to leave them as much of thier assets and resources as possible so they can have more control of their own destiny and otherwise just leave them alone.

I wouldn't worry about that Foxy.

The Federal Reserve is at the helm.

On the other hand, the fear of rising inflation makes it more difficult for the Fed to jolt the economy with another wave of cheap money.

Lower interest rates have already pushed down the value of the dollar, which in turn prompted oil-producing countries to push for higher oil prices.

WASHINGTON, April 16 (Xinhua) -- The U.S. economy weakened further in March as consumers curbed spending due to higher costs, Federal Reserve said Wednesday in a nationwide survey.

"Reports from the twelve Federal Reserve Districts indicate that economic conditions have weakened" since the last report released on March 5, said the survey, which is based on economic information supplied by the Fed's 12 regional banks and collected before April 7, 2008.

"Nine Districts noted slowing in the pace of economic activity, while the remaining three -- Boston Cleveland, and Richmond -- described activity as mixed or steady," said the survey.

"Consumer spending was characterized as softening across most of the country, with some Districts reporting year-over-year declines in retail and or auto sales," the Fed said.

Housing markets and home construction "remained sluggish" throughout most of the nation, though there were few signs of any quickening in the pace of deterioration.

Business contacts across all Districts continued to report increases in input costs and output prices.

"In particular, price increases were consistently reported for food products, fuel and energy products, and many raw materials," said the survey. "More specifically, increases in the price of chemicals, metals, plastics and other petroleum-based products were commonly cited."

"Most manufacturers have or are planning to increase prices in response to rising input costs, while the response of service firms has been more mixed, in part due to differences in competitive pressures," it added.

The survey, or Beige Book, summarizes comments received from business and other contacts outside the Fed and is not a commentary on the views of Fed officials.

However, information from the survey will figure into discussions at the Fed's next policy-making meeting scheduled at end of this month.

Paul Krugman has done something unusual with Obama's remarks about rural Pennsylvanians being bitter: He has investigated their merits. Krugman's concluion is unflatering:

Paul Krugman wrote:

Mr. Obama's comments combined assertions about economics, sociology and voting behavior. In each case, his assertion was mostly if not entirely wrong.

Full Story

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Krugman has morphed into an anti-Obama hack of late, so there's hardly anything surprising about this.

Cycloptichorn

Although it's evident that Krugman is anti-Obama, I don't think you've established that he's a hack -- as opposed to, say, an honest and intelligent commentator who happens to disagree with you. Moreover, even if Krugman was an anti-Obama hack, that wouldn't mean that Obama's statements are correct. Personal attacks on the messenger don't make an adequate argument against the message.

engineer wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Paul Krugman has done something unusual with Obama's remarks about rural Pennsylvanians being bitter: He has investigated their merits. Krugman's concluion is unflatering:

Paul Krugman wrote:

Mr. Obama's comments combined assertions about economics, sociology and voting behavior. In each case, his assertion was mostly if not entirely wrong.

Full Story

Krugman has morphed into an anti-Obama hack of late, so there's hardly anything surprising about this.

Cycloptichorn

But his argument still has merits. Not that it moves me from the Obama to McCain camp, but you can't dismiss his argument just because he is on the other side of the fence. The "bitter" part is fine, but the "clings" to guns and religion and xenophobia part is off. Krugman makes that point well.

Having grown up in and lived most of my life in small town American, my kids live in small towns now, and a large chunk of our relatives are long time residents of small towns, and we do quite a bit of our work in small towns, I can assure you that the 'bitter' part is a stretch too. You can find bitter people everywhere, but my experience in small town America is that you mostly find people who live there because they LIKE small towns and laid back lifestyles more than crowded cities with congested traffic and high crime and all the other negatives that can be associated with cities.

For the most part they are optimistic, gentle, gracious, hospitable people without a shred of bitterness in evidence. I think the average small town person will be far more likely to vote for the candidate who speaks well of America and Americans and who holds up ideals of initative, self respect, accountability, and opportunity instead of images of victimization and hopelessness. And I think most small town Americans would prefer government to leave them as much of thier assets and resources as possible so they can have more control of their own destiny and otherwise just leave them alone.

Foxfyre wrote:

For the most part they are optimistic, gentle, gracious, hospitable people without a shred of bitterness in evidence. I think the average small town person will be far more likely to vote for the candidate who speaks well of America and Americans and who holds up ideals of initative, self respect, accountability, and opportunity instead of images of victimization and hopelessness. And I think most small town Americans would prefer government to leave them as much of thier assets and resources as possible so they can have more control of their own destiny and otherwise just leave them alone.

Then they will be voting for Obama in droves! Better that than McCain who will tell them to "be afraid, be very afraid! Just send me your tax dollars and children so we can fight more wars."

Gosh, what bullshit!

Pollyanna, I hate to slap you into reality but everyone,in general, is bitter about something.

Quote:

Gosh, what bullshit!

Pollyanna, I hate to slap you into reality but everyone,in general, is bitter about something.

Maybe in your world.

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:

Gosh, what bullshit!

Pollyanna, I hate to slap you into reality but everyone,in general, is bitter about something.

Maybe in your world.

Do you just ignore the realities of economic reports or what mysteryman? I mean; the price of gas just rose on average 1.9 cents overnight. Not to mention all the other economy woes and jobs already cited and backed up. Do you just make up your own world and call it reality?

ok mysteryman; good enough for me. (not that you needed my ok, but anyway)

Well; speaking of enjoying life too much; I have been forcing myself to get outside on occasion away from the internet and I have got to get back to planting my new flower bed. ugh. But it does makes you feel you have done something with your day to get good and tired.

revel wrote:

ok mysteryman; good enough for me. (not that you needed my ok, but anyway)

Well; speaking of enjoying life too much; I have been forcing myself to get outside on occasion away from the internet and I have got to get back to planting my new flower bed. ugh. But it does makes you feel you have done something with your day to get good and tired.

I know that feeling.
I just spent a good part of yesterday mowing my yard and digging some holes for some new trees.
I have a large lot, and usually I use a riding mower, but it needs a new starter.
So, I had to use a gas powered push mower, that took about 5 hours to mow the whole lot.
I bought 10 more blue spruce trees that I am going to plant this weekend,so I went ahead and dug the holes today and yesterday.
Right now, I'm so stiff I dont want to move.

mysteryman wrote:

revel wrote:

ok mysteryman; good enough for me. (not that you needed my ok, but anyway)

Well; speaking of enjoying life too much; I have been forcing myself to get outside on occasion away from the internet and I have got to get back to planting my new flower bed. ugh. But it does makes you feel you have done something with your day to get good and tired.

I know that feeling.
I just spent a good part of yesterday mowing my yard and digging some holes for some new trees.
I have a large lot, and usually I use a riding mower, but it needs a new starter.
So, I had to use a gas powered push mower, that took about 5 hours to mow the whole lot.
I bought 10 more blue spruce trees that I am going to plant this weekend,so I went ahead and dug the holes today and yesterday.
Right now, I'm so stiff I dont want to move.

Was it you digging those holes that triggered the earthquake?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Paul Krugman has done something unusual with Obama's remarks about rural Pennsylvanians being bitter: He has investigated their merits. Krugman's concluion is unflatering:

"Mr. Obama's comments combined assertions about economics, sociology and voting behavior. In each case, his assertion was mostly if not entirely wrong."

Full Story

Krugman has morphed into an anti-Obama hack of late, so there's hardly anything surprising about this.

Although it's evident that Krugman is anti-Obama, I don't think you've established that he's a hack -- as opposed to, say, an honest and intelligent commentator who happens to disagree with you. Moreover, even if Krugman was an anti-Obama hack, that wouldn't mean that Obama's statements are correct. Personal attacks on the messenger don't make an adequate argument against the message.

I just spent a good part of yesterday mowing my yard and digging some holes for some new trees.
I have a large lot, and usually I use a riding mower, but it needs a new starter.
So, I had to use a gas powered push mower, that took about 5 hours to mow the whole lot.
I bought 10 more blue spruce trees that I am going to plant this weekend,so I went ahead and dug the holes today and yesterday.
Right now, I'm so stiff I dont want to move.

Will anybody be asking Mr Obama his view on Mr Mugabe's speech today to mark Independence Day in Zimbabwe?

At least McCain isn't proposing new entitlements, threatening to massively raise taxes