Obama '08?

And, you draw your information and repeat only those things you find in Left-wing rags. You continually call for citations, but all we get from you are links to Left-wing rags, or the Official campaign sites where spin is king.

I don't watch film clips, ever. The reason is that they virtually never are close captioned for the hearing impaired, and I'm about as deaf as a stone. Now if you can refer me to the actual verbatim text of Wright's sermons over the past 20 years, that would be nice. I'd love to compile from those a list of his typical inflammatory sermons.

Would you find the sermons of a White preacher "no big deal" if he said similar things about Blacks and the Black Community from the pulpit ... ONLY one percent of the time? Lets imagine a typical sermon lasts one to two hours. Two hours times 52 weeks in a year, times 20 years. That comes to 2080 hours of sermons. Now you suggest that Wright is only racially offensive one percent of the time, that would be around 21 hours of racially bigoted exhortation from the pulpit. I think you underestimate the inflammatory episodes by a at least an order of magnitude. I'm guessing that Wright is unable to repress himself closer to 10% of the time, and that would make for 208 hours of racist hatred delivered over 20 years. There are 120 minutes in an hour, so between one and twelve minutes of chauvinist diatribe found its way into each of Wrights sermons. Now, you say that's, "no big deal". I disagree, and if you weren't bedazzled by Obama, so would you.

revel wrote:

Luckily Foxfrye, Asherman's...views are not what is reflected in the polls concerning the whole Wright thing.

In the Democratic primary, you're right, especially when that albatross for him is overshadowed by Hillary's bigger albatross of sniper fire in Bosnia. I think that will change in the general election when Obama is compared to McCain, an unashamed patriot, and that speech that Obama has never given.

Have you ever read that sermon, Cyclop? If so, please show me anything positive about anything communicated in it other than keeping praying because God does answer prayer?

revel wrote:

Luckily Foxfrye, Asherman's...views are not what is reflected in the polls concerning the whole Wright thing.

In the Democratic primary, you're right, especially when that albatross for him is overshadowed by Hillary's bigger albatross of sniper fire in Bosnia. I think that will change in the general election when Obama is compared to McCain, an unashamed patriot, and that speech that Obama has never given.

Foxfyre wrote:

Have you ever read that sermon, Cyclop? If so, please show me anything positive about anything communicated in it other than keeping praying because God does answer prayer?

I can do no more then introduce you to the material. Now, is it a sermon chock-filled with praise of the US of A, from start to finish? Nope. But why does that matter? The point is exactly what you gleaned from - the universality and importance of hope, and how it affects everyone's life.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclops,

I assert that you know nothing about Wright or his sermons whatsoever. You have done no research and seek to do no research. Yet you feel perfectly capable of defending him based upon your support of Obama. You speak as if you know the totality of his time as a preacher, and the impact he's had on Obama's life. Bullshit. Y ou know nothing about any of it. I think that you are defending Obama with this, because you feel you recognize his vulnerability on this issue. You have no desire whatsoever to do any sort of research which will lead to a rational, objective conclusion. You are blind to anything that doesn't reflect well on your candidate. It's intellectual laziness, blind partisanship and dishonesty. Admit that you know nothing about the subject, please, other then what you have read in left-wing rags.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Have you ever read that sermon, Cyclop? If so, please show me anything positive about anything communicated in it other than keeping praying because God does answer prayer?

I can do no more then introduce you to the material. Now, is it a sermon chock-filled with praise of the US of A, from start to finish? Nope. But why does that matter? The point is exactly what you gleaned from - the universality and importance of hope, and how it affects everyone's life.

Cycloptichorn

No quarrel with that. But nowhere in that sermon is there suggestion of any of God's blessings being evident in anything. And reporters from ABC, CBS, MSNBC, and CNN who have reviewed many of Jeremiah Wright's sermons report this kind of theme mixed with obvious anti-American and or racist comments in a lot, if not most of them.

I would listen to one, maybe two sermons like Jeremiah Wright's "Audacity to Hope" sermon and I would be out of that Church looking for one that would give me hope that there was something to hope for. So even here, if THIS is what inspired Barack Obama to join that church and stay there for 20 years, how much of Jeremiah Wright's view of the world does he in fact share?

THAT is his image problem which has been raised to the surface through the Jeremiah Wright flap.

Foxfyre wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Have you ever read that sermon, Cyclop? If so, please show me anything positive about anything communicated in it other than keeping praying because God does answer prayer?

I can do no more then introduce you to the material. Now, is it a sermon chock-filled with praise of the US of A, from start to finish? Nope. But why does that matter? The point is exactly what you gleaned from - the universality and importance of hope, and how it affects everyone's life.

Cycloptichorn

No quarrel with that. But nowhere in that sermon is there suggestion of any of God's blessings being evident in anything. And reporters from ABC, CBS, MSNBC, and CNN who have reviewed many of Jeremiah Wright's sermons report this kind of theme mixed with obvious anti-American and or racist comments in a lot, if not most of them.

I would listen to one, maybe two sermons like Jeremiah Wright's "Audacity to Hope" sermon and I would be out of that Church looking for one that would give me hope that there was something to hope for. So even here, if THIS is what inspired Barack Obama to join that church and stay there for 20 years, how much of Jeremiah Wright's view of the world does he in fact share?

THAT is his image problem which has been raised to the surface through the Jeremiah Wright flap.

What? I truly don't understand your quarrell with the sermon.

I suppose you don't think he went on enough about whatever your flavor of god worship should be like; whatever. It's a long road, though, between that and not 'loving America.' I don't think that any actual logic lets you make the connection between the two, but instead, you understand that the rhetoric allows you to make that connection, without any need of support.

When questioned on the logic, you retreat to stating 'well, Obama didn't come out and give a speech where he just gushed about how much he loves America and how great things are here.' So, despite the fact that there never was a logical case to connect him to any sort of anti-American thoughts whatsoever, he didn't defend against that non-case well enough for you to forgive him.

The whole thing, however, is built upon the assumption that those who say things we don't like about America, must be anti-American. That those who say things that we don't agree with, must be racists and bigots. I think that this is an invalid thought to begin with, and one which speaks much about the parochial mindset of those who adopt it.

Cycloptichorn

If one truly loves one's country, one would say: "That's just wrong," when wrong things are done. The racist legacy of America--slavery, lynching, employment discrimination, demeaning and insulting stereotypes--not only was bad in the past, it continues to this day, with the exception of slavery, and that lynching has been replaced by the Driving While Black phenomenon, and the disproportionate incarceration of blacks and Hispanics. As recently as the 1980s, the Federal criminal code was so structured that sentences for crack cocaine were much more severe than sentences for powdered cocaine, which essentially meant that blacks, Hispanics and poor whites were likely to be incarcerated for, and when incarcerated, to do longer sentences for cocaine abuse and/or sale and distribution than middle class whites who used powdered cocaine.

Racism, economic elitism and insulting stereotypes have not gone away. If one loves this country, then one should speak out loudly against such blots on the national character, even if one is a smug, comfortable, conservative middle class, middle aged mealy-mouthed white christian woman. How much more likely that blacks, Hispanics and poor whites are going to do so, and be smeared as unpatriotic for doing so.

Henry Clay famously observed that he didn't think killing 2500 Englishman at New Orleans qualified Andrew Jackson to be President. Serving in Vietnam, being a prisoner of war neither qualifies nor disqualifies McCain from the office--it is not, in fact, relevant. It is so disgusting to see the rah-rah flag waving from those who don't have to go in harm's way, and so many who have never gone in harm's way. Military service is not a requisite for the office for the good and sufficient reason that it is not a military office.

I disagree. One of the key success factors of the Bush II presidency was his ability to wear a flight suit and to strut around in it on an aircraft carrier. John McCain's skills in this regard are much more profound than Bush's, not to mention much more genuine. So if Bush was a great president, John McCain promises to be even greater. You are just being naive and resentful.

By Ralph R. Reiland
Monday, March 31, 2008

The Department of Justice reports that approximately 8,000 blacks were murdered in the United States in 2005. In one year, that's exactly double the total number of American military deaths during the entire five years of the war in Iraq; in one year, that's 10 times the average number of American military deaths per year since the start of the war.
A recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice shows that blacks committed murders in 2005 at a rate seven times higher than whites.

The vast majority of those 8,000 black murders in 2005 were intraracial -- black victims being killed by other blacks. Similarly, Justice Department statistics covering the years 1976 through 2005 show that 94 percent of black murder victims were killed by blacks, and 86 percent of white murder victims were killed by whites.

Conversely, in inter-racial terms, 6 percent of black murder victims during those years were killed by non-blacks while 14 percent of white murder victims were killed by non-whites.

For 1976 through 2005, the Justice Department reports that blacks, 12 percent of the U.S. population, committed 52 percent of the nation's murders and were 47 percent of all murder victims.
Until I heard the racist and anti-American tirades of Barack Obama's pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, it hadn't occurred to me that the murderous fires in the black community were being stoked from the pulpits inside black churches.

I wonder if it's ever occurred to Obama and Wright that it probably doesn't help young people in the black community when they're told that their country hates them, that the U.S. government gave them drugs and AIDS, and that jail and genocide are the officially-sanctioned plan for them.

"The government gives them drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America,'" shouted Wright at his congregation. "No, no, no. God damn America. That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

I wonder if Obama ever considered the negative impact on young blacks from listening to these hateful and anti-white tirades. It's not as if Obama is blind to the influence of hate speech. When Don Imus made one careless remark about black female athletes, Obama was among the first to call for his firing. Fines and a temporary suspension weren't enough. Obama said he wanted Imus silenced so that his young daughters never had to hear such language.

Does Obama think it's good for his daughters and the black community when black leaders increase the black community's level of anger, defeatism, paranoia, cynicism, negativity and pessimism? Does he think it's good to jack up the level of the resentment and racism in a community that's already overdosed on rage and victimhood?

"Recent statistics show that more than three times as many black people live in prison cells as in college dorms," reports the Lincoln Institute for Research and Education. "One in every 10 black men between the ages of 25 and 29 is in prison."

On top of being murdered, blacks are also "more likely than any other group to be victims of serious violent crime," reports the Justice Department, which is defined as "rape, other sexual assaults, robbery or aggravated assault."

And we need more ranting and raving, more boiling with rage?

Does Obama think it improves matters when black leaders tell blacks that they're poor, sick, jailed or hooked on drugs because of a government plot? Does it help to fix things if the choir is singing "The devil made me do it," the white devil?

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color," Rev. Wright preaches to his congregation. In America, he asserted, "no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."

The United States is "the number-one killer in the world," preached Wright, the "U.S. of K.K.K. A," a nation that only maintains its standard of living "by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty."

For 20 years, Barack Obama drank the aforementioned Kool-Aid, never seeing the problem. That makes him a problem.