Obama '08?

By emotional investment, I mean in the objectionable points of view expressed by pastor Wright. It is the same issue of whether you would be a heavy participant and contributor to an organization if you didn't agree with the primary emphasis/purpose of that organization.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Miller wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I think that you and other Conservatives WANT him to be the Black candidate.

The color of his skin is not important to our decisions concerning his run for the presidency. Of concern, is his seeming inability to ever speak the truth.

Moreover, does he really think any American Jew will vote for him, when he's a dues paying ( $20,000/yr) member of an anti-semitic congregation headed by an antisemitic Pastor, such as Mr. Wright?

No, you're lying. You want him to be seen as the Black candidate, because it will allow you to use the politics of racial division to attack him. It's a part of the Republican strategy this fall.

Cycloptichorn

Really? I think you are wrong on this. I believe Mrs. Bill Clinton is behind the sudden release of this 20 year old information about Obama and his relationships with his church. Mrs. Bill Clinton is the only winner here.

If it were a "republican conspiracy", this 20 year old information would not have been made an issue until after Obama wins the nomination.

Foxfyre wrote:

By emotional investment, I mean in the objectionable points of view expressed by pastor Wright. It is the same issue of whether you would be a heavy participant and contributor to an organization if you didn't agree with the primary emphasis/purpose of that organization.

Do you know what the primary emphasis/purpose of Obama's church is? Or are you deducing that based on a couple of soundbites played on continuous clip on Fox?

I thought Obama was pretty clear in both his speech and his previous responses to this issue that the primary emphasis he saw was on social justice, helping the poor, and otherwise serving the community. That was his whole point, in fact, that these clips don't accurately reflect the man or the church in their totality, and that he was involved in the church precisely for its primary purpose of promoting social justice and serving the community.

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

It's not a republican conspiracy in any fashion, you are right about that. But it gives many of them the opportunity to refer to him over and over as the 'black' candidate, which they desperately want to do.

Cycloptichorn

Phoenix32890 wrote:

blatham wrote:

Um...why? Not meaning to be too facetious but are you worried about your hubcaps, Israel, liberals generally or the 'charisma' thing?

Well maybe you did not mean to be facetious, but you sure came across that way. I'll forgive you this time. (Old ladies DO forgive easily )

Anyhow, bottom line, he talks about bringing people together, yet he definitely puts the working and middle class on one side, and business on the other, for one thing. I don't know where he thinks that the jobs for all these workers come from, but put the screws into business, and many more people will be out of work.

I think that the war in Iraq was not carried out well, but pulling out now will make our position untenable.

I have two major concerns, terrorism and the economy. I think that he is wrongheaded on both subjects.....................And I haven't checked my hubcaps recently! :wink:

Call this a day of confusion for me. Both you and Bear said you don't trust him, but when asked, you answer that you essentially don't agree with him on the issues. Fair enough, but that's something altogether different from mistrust. What am I missing here?

Foxfyre wrote:

But I think Steele's analysis is probably right. Up to the time of that speech, Obama was not the 'black candidate'. He was everybody's candidate. What Steele, Sowell, and others are now saying is that the speech brought race to the forefront and Obama is more likely to now be seen as 'the black candidate' in a way that was not the case before.

Then I have to disagree. Race was brought to the forefront without Obama's help, and the speech came because he had no choice but to grab the bull by the horns. He could have sat back and let other people define him (as the black candidate, btw, radical, militant, and a result of affirmative action) but he addressed it directly instead. And those of us who were listening definitely did not think he was speaking as "the black candidate" but was trying to get back to the theme of his campaign which has always been about moving past this stuff.

The only reason I look at it as a possibility is based on Dr. Steele's intensive research, study, and analysis of the dynamics of racial attitudes and dynamics in America. I have to figure he didn't just make it up out of thin air.

I just think that even though the speech was on target that it doesn't reflect his real feelings. I think hes a very slick politician who wants the White House. Period.

From TUCC's website:

Quote:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Mission Statement: What Trinity Is About

Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots! As a congregation of baptized believers, we are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God's family. We, as a church family, acknowledge, that we will, building on this affirmation of "who we are" and "whose we are," call men, women, boys and girls to the liberating love of Jesus Christ, inviting them to become a part of the church universal, responding to Jesus' command that we go into all the world and make disciples!

We are called out to be "a chosen people" that pays no attention to socio-economic or educational backgrounds. We are made up of the highly educated and the uneducated. Our congregation is a combination of the haves and the have-nots; the economically disadvantaged, the under-class, the unemployed and the employable.

The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America's economic mal-distribution!

W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

If one candidate can be judged in what they say, what they support, what their relationships are, then Obama shouldn't be given a pass based on those things either, Candidone.

I agree that none of us can see into the thoughts and soul of another. All we have to judge somebody else on is what they do, what they say, and the company they keep.

Foxfyre wrote:

If one candidate can be judged in what they say, what they support, what their relationships are, then Obama shouldn't be given a pass based on those things either, Candidone.

I agree that none of us can see into the thoughts and soul of another. All we have to judge somebody else on is what they do, what they say, and the company they keep.

There is a huge irony when conservative Christians start demanding that preachers from black churches be politically correct.

Do you think that there are any conservative churches that don't have a pastor on record as saying something racially or ethnically insensitive?

I just think that even though the speech was on target that it doesn't reflect his real feelings.