Obama '08?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I gave you one; you responded to my snark but not my comment on the issue.

no you didn't respond to the question... you danced around it....

Did you not see this post, Bear? Seems pretty unequivocal to me.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I don't think that statements made by those who are not the candidates themselves, or are working for the candidate in some fashion, are material to the question of whether or not someone will make a good president. At all. So I wouldn't have too much of a problem with any comments like that

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
and those of you who believe Obama can do nothing wrong no matter what.... are neutral..... more bullshit whether anyone cares or not.

so answer the fookin' question... if the shoe were on the other foot would you be satisified?

I don't think that statements made by those who are not the candidates themselves, or are working for the candidate in some fashion, are material to the question of whether or not someone will make a good president. At all. So I wouldn't have too much of a problem with any comments like that; hell, I AGREE with many of those comments.

I think that all Religious folks are pretty much equally crazy.

Cycloptichorn

Didn't dance around sh*t. I would be fine if she had such a preacher WITHOUT any explanation from her. So I would obviously be fine with an explanation such as the one Obama gave.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

I don't know how much longer yall will continue hissing at each other, but here is johnboy's little essay:

Years ago, when debate was going on about establishing a Martin Luther King holiday, I argued against it. I, a white southern guy, was criticized for that. Folks, some folks, couldn't get past the notion that some Monday would/should be a holiday, celebrated by having the Post office and banks closed, and perhaps, MLK Day sales at the used car lots.

I argued instead that the weekend closest to MLK's birthday be a time when folks who are traditionally separated religiously by race spend some time visiting other churches and synagogues (and by modern extension, mosques).

I lost that debate, but I still think I was right.

I am 62 years old. I was in the first class of the first school in Virginia to be integrated. There were some problems, but in a few years, guys like me who ran track had no problem handing the baton to or from a person of a different race. We just wanted to win.

A few years later I landed in VN as a draftee, sort of. Many of my squad mates were black or Pueto Rican. There were some problems, but we all had a shared goal. We just wanted to stay alive.

We have come a long way in the US in the nearly 50 years since I was on the steps of Lane High School standing next to two black kids waiting to go to gym class.

I have been to a few weddings over the years in black churches. And I have been to more than a few funerals of folks I have been friends with.

But I have never been to a regular worship service in a place other than the one I periodically attend. Have you?

It troubles me that race and religion are becoming divisive issues, not just in the US, but in other parts of the world where we thought we were making progress.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I gave you one; you responded to my snark but not my comment on the issue.

no you didn't respond to the question... you danced around it....

Did you not see this post, Bear? Seems pretty unequivocal to me.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think that statements made by those who are not the candidates themselves, or are working for the candidate in some fashion, are material to the question of whether or not someone will make a good president. At all. So I wouldn't have too much of a problem with any comments like that

no that's not an answer to my question....that's a broad statement designed to avoid the specifics of the question....

0 Replies

See my above answer, which was obvious to you already, but you didn't want to discuss.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
I'm not convinced that your example is equivalent. And even less convinced that we could get anywhere discussing a hypothetical double standard. After all, we'll never know which of us is right. I don't mind spinning my wheels now and again but I don't need the exercise just now.

what is it that's confusing you? It's exactly the same scenario only with Hillary's preacher making inflammatory remarks.... you don't have to answer.... this time my question is rhetorical....

It's only exactly the same scenario if the country is currently being run by "minorities" and whites were being lynched 40 years ago, and were slaves before that, and if being white in this country meant that you were more likely to go to jail and less likely to own a home and more likely to be in poverty. A better example would be if she were found to have ties to some radical women's movement whose leader advocated, I don't know, forced castration or something.

In either scenario I would not see it as a big deal. If her pastor said that we should invade Iran to bring about the end times more quickly, and if she didn't disavow such talk, I would have a problem with that.

For me it's a tad fuzzy -- it has to do with my perception of whether I think those views are shared by or negatively influential to the candidate. Obviously neither Obama nor Hillary strike me as radicals or racists.

0 Replies

I enjoyed your post, realjohnboy. Thanks for that.

0 Replies

I did too.

0 Replies

realjohnboy wrote:

I don't know how much longer yall will continue hissing at each other, but here is johnboy's little essay:
....

rjb, agreed, enough is enough.

Heres my conclusion. I am sick of all of this. Lets move on to politics and policy, but what has happened here is that whether it was what Clinton did or Obama did it to himself, he is now a black candidate instead of simply a Democratic candidate. I agree with Thomas Sowell, a double life does not work. To elaborate, he who lives by the sword may also die by the sword, politically speaking. I don't know, but I think Obama is done, either somehow some way before the nomination or in November. Unless words speak louder than action, he's done.

Of course, the Obamiacs or whatever you call them have circled the wagons, as is so obvious on this forum, and nothing will dissuade them from virtual worship of this man to their dying gasp.

0 Replies

Okie, your labeling of Obama as the 'black candidate' is meant as a slur against him, and a signal that you don't really want to get beyond it at all.

From tomorrow's NYT, a much different conclusion.

Quote:

March 19, 2008
Editorial
Mr. Obama's Profile in Courage

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Okie, your labeling of Obama as the 'black candidate' is meant as a slur against him, and a signal that you don't really want to get beyond it at all.

From tomorrow's NYT, a much different conclusion.

Cycloptichorn

I did not label him the black candidate, I simply point out what I think has happened to him. I didn't do it. He did it to himself, in my opinion. Thomas Sowell said as much, which I agree with. If Obama would have wanted to get beyond it, he would have disassociated himself from this kind of racial politics many years ago, or at least he would not only repudiate the message now, but the messengers of it now, and he still has not done that.

Obama is an artful master of riding the fence of issues, to represent or appeal to all people, no matter how wrong, by somehow not taking a stand, and this seems to just be another prime example of that. But as Thomas Sowell suggests, perhaps the double life mentality is what propells him into that mode of politics? He seeks to be all things to all people, which is ultimately unrealistic and impossible.

So he chooses to bring people together by not rejecting racists, even embracing them, and somehow at the same time we need to get beyond racism. Personally, I find that a morally bankrupt approach, but to each his own. But then that seems to be the modern approach, to understand our enemies, not defeat them, to coddle and understand criminals, not punish them or lock them up, etc.

0 Replies

Obama knows how to soar, while the right makes every attempt to put him in the gutter. They don't realize how they are alienating the young voters; they're smarter than they give them credit for.

That's also one of the reason why most young folks under 40 support Obama, and those over that age supports Hillary.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Okie, your labeling of Obama as the 'black candidate' is meant as a slur against him, and a signal that you don't really want to get beyond it at all.

From tomorrow's NYT, a much different conclusion.

Cycloptichorn

I did not label him the black candidate, I simply point out what I think has happened to him. I didn't do it. He did it to himself, in my opinion. Thomas Sowell said as much, which I agree with. If Obama would have wanted to get beyond it, he would have disassociated himself from this kind of racial politics many years ago, or at least he would not only repudiate the message now, but the messengers of it now, and he still has not done that.

Obama is an artful master of riding the fence of issues, to represent or appeal to all people, no matter how wrong, by somehow not taking a stand, and this seems to just be another prime example of that. But as Thomas Sowell suggests, perhaps the double life mentality is what propells him into that mode of politics? He seeks to be all things to all people, which is ultimately unrealistic and impossible.

So he chooses to bring people together by not rejecting racists, even embracing them, and somehow at the same time we need to get beyond racism. Personally, I find that a morally bankrupt approach, but to each his own. But then that seems to be the modern approach, to understand our enemies, not defeat them, to coddle and understand criminals, not punish them or lock them up, etc.

Do you think it is possible to create unity between people by shunning them and pushing them away? Is that a unifying tactic?

In many ways, the opinions and attitudes of many Republicans are as repugnant as Wright's comments were, on some issues. Should Obama push them away instead of trying to work with them? Is that what you want? I doubt it.

By repeating the 'black candidate' meme, you endorse it and seek to continue it. If you do not, then pledge right now not to repeat it again.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

FreeDuck wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm not convinced that your example is equivalent. And even less convinced that we could get anywhere discussing a hypothetical double standard. After all, we'll never know which of us is right. I don't mind spinning my wheels now and again but I don't need the exercise just now.

what is it that's confusing you? It's exactly the same scenario only with Hillary's preacher making inflammatory remarks.... you don't have to answer.... this time my question is rhetorical....

It's only exactly the same scenario if the country is currently being run by "minorities" and whites were being lynched 40 years ago, and were slaves before that, and if being white in this country meant that you were more likely to go to jail and less likely to own a home and more likely to be in poverty. A better example would be if she were found to have ties to some radical women's movement whose leader advocated, I don't know, forced castration or something.

In either scenario I would not see it as a big deal. If her pastor said that we should invade Iran to bring about the end times more quickly, and if she didn't disavow such talk, I would have a problem with that.

For me it's a tad fuzzy -- it has to do with my perception of whether I think those views are shared by or negatively influential to the candidate. Obviously neither Obama nor Hillary strike me as radicals or racists.

hey... a real answer...thanks.

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Do you think it is possible to create unity between people by shunning them and pushing them away? Is that a unifying tactic?

In many ways, the opinions and attitudes of many Republicans are as repugnant as Wright's comments were, on some issues. Should Obama push them away instead of trying to work with them? Is that what you want? I doubt it.

By repeating the 'black candidate' meme, you endorse it and seek to continue it. If you do not, then pledge right now not to repeat it again.

Cycloptichorn

Play word games if you want, but to state it simply, I will not support, nor will I embrace racial politics, and that is what I see this as. I am sick of it. I am voting for a politician that is more interested in defending the country and its constitutional principles. I would recommend Obama disassociate himself from questionable characters so that he can move on to something better and more uplifting, and he refuses to do that. I am tired of fence sitters and I am tired of flowery speeches that mean nothing.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Do you think it is possible to create unity between people by shunning them and pushing them away? Is that a unifying tactic?

In many ways, the opinions and attitudes of many Republicans are as repugnant as Wright's comments were, on some issues. Should Obama push them away instead of trying to work with them? Is that what you want? I doubt it.

By repeating the 'black candidate' meme, you endorse it and seek to continue it. If you do not, then pledge right now not to repeat it again.

Cycloptichorn

Play word games if you want, but to state it simply, I will not support, nor will I embrace racial politics, and that is what I see this as. I am sick of it. I am voting for a politician that is more interested in defending the country and its constitutional principles. I would recommend Obama disassociate himself from questionable characters so that he can move on to something better and more uplifting, and he refuses to do that. I am tired of fence sitters and I am tired of flowery speeches that mean nothing.

If you don't want to embrace racial politics, you won't refer to him as the black candidate anymore. Right?

I don't understand why Republicans think Dems should take advice from them. It's like taking advice from your opponent in a chess match. Never a great idea in the long run.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

... most young folks under 40 support Obama, and those over that age supports Hillary.

Very true and could be due to the fact that people over 40-50 know more history, than do those in the younger age range.

You can understand race relations better today, if you've lived during the Civil Rights movement ( for better or worse).

0 Replies

You speak of the civil right movement like it's over. Your intuition about the younger generation betrays you. A 15 year old hispanic girl has a more profound and far more relevant perspective than any 50-60 year old white guy who was present for the 60's movement or desegregation. The issues then and now are different, and while history is great in offering us context, ultimately the people currently experiencing the issues independant of age have a more useful perspective.

Understanding history is good, but the real way to understand race relations is to be close to the issue.

I get tired hearing the ways in which younger generations should be ignored or how their opinions/ideas should not be taken seriously. I'm 25, and I'll have to live with the consequences from decisions made today, for what I hope to be a long life. I won't be told to sit, and watch.

The youth of America
K
O.

0 Replies

Diest TKO wrote:

The issues then and now are different...

Guess you weren't listening to either the Obama speech or the Wright sermons. Crying or Very sad

0 Replies

Miller wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
The issues then and now are different...

Guess you weren't listening to either the Obama speech or the Wright sermons.

Again, I'm not sure what your getting at. Why do I have to yeild to an older generation on a topic I understand better from firsthand experience.

Thinking for myself.
Keeping it real.
O

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know