Obama '08?

revel wrote:

I tell you I am just so disgusted at this latest turn of events backed by conservatives but not disavowed (used that word a lot today) by Hillary, that if Obama goes down because of this whole stupid Wright thing I am not voting for anybody. (not that my vote makes a lot of difference; just expressing my disgust for this whole thing.)

What turn of events are you talking about that is backed by conservatives? Is Brian Ross of ABC News now a conservative? No one forced Obama to join that church and make all those statements about his pastor's influence on his life. There are plenty of liberals and Democrats who are just as skeptical that he remained clueless about his pastor for all those years. And what the hell does Hillary have to do with any of this?

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Apparently Bill Krystal, who wrote the article about where or where not Obama was when wright delivered the hotly debated sermon, today apologized for having his facts wrong.

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nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

revel wrote:
I tell you I am just so disgusted at this latest turn of events backed by conservatives but not disavowed (used that word a lot today) by Hillary, that if Obama goes down because of this whole stupid Wright thing I am not voting for anybody. (not that my vote makes a lot of difference; just expressing my disgust for this whole thing.)

What turn of events are you talking about that is backed by conservatives? Is Brian Ross of ABC News now a conservative? No one forced Obama to join that church and make all those statements about his pastor's influence on his life. There are plenty of liberals and Democrats who are just as skeptical that he remained clueless about his pastor for all those years. And what the hell does Hillary have to do with any of this?

Most of these articles that i have been seeing come from sources such newsmax and articles circulated by McCain.

Here is one example of an article circulated by McCain.

Quote:

McCain Camp Says It Was 'An Error' to Circulate Clip on Obama Pastor:

A McCain aide told Time Magazine's Michael Scherer on Friday that "it was an error" for the McCain campaign to circulate a Wall Street Journal op-ed attacking Obama for his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

"Obviously what's important here is what Sen. McCain has said on it," the McCain aide told Time.

The Wall Street Journal story linking Obama and Wright was one of several full-text clips circulated to reporters on Friday morning by the McCain campaign.

links found at the source

Foxfyre was talking about newsmax earlier and all the conservative heads are having a field day with this.

Hillary should say that she knows Obama does not share the same views expressed by his pastor. It is the right thing to do given this stir up.

I am not accusing the right wing of making Obama doing anything; what I am saying is that they are exploiting it and furiously slinging out their opinions before they even know all the facts or even after knowing the facts. Obama is not his pastor. Did we go after everyone of Jerry Fawell congregation members when he said the gays caused 9/11? No we didn't.

I don't care how many democrats are swallowing all this crap. I think if people were honest they would admit they do not believe Obama has the same views as Wright; but then that wouldn't help this scandal stay strong.

Anyway; I am through discussing it until tomorrow when Obama speaks again on the subject.

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No one is 'going after' any of TUCC's members, either, unless they happen to be running for president. See the difference?

Obama has said:

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial."

"Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn."

Which is true?

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Foxfyre wrote:

FD, I don't have a clue what is in Obama's heart or what views he shares other than what he says he believes, what he proposes, and what he shows to us via his vote/actions/words/writings. I think it would be the height of arrogance for me to speculate on his thoughts or his motives that are not supported by his votes, his words, his writings, etc.

Ok, so based on those things: his votes, words, writings, etc... do you believe that Obama shares the views expressed by his pastor in the speeches in question?

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nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

No one is 'going after' any of TUCC's members, either, unless they happen to be running for president. See the difference?

Obama has said:

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial."

"Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn."

Which is true?

Why can't they both be true?

"I don't think my church is actually particularly [two qualifiers] controversial"

If taken against the background of churches in America (the other black churches, the Falwell churches, the Pat Robertson churches, the Nation of Islam, etc., etc.) it's not a particularly controversial church. Note, he's talking about the whole church, not just Wright. By all accounts the church -- as an institution, and the many people within it -- has done a whole lot of plain old regular useful helpful churchly things.

"All the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones I vehemently condemn"

Within this not particularly controversial church, a pastor occasionally made controversial statements. Some of the worst of those occasional statements were collected in a video. Obama condemns those statements.

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Neither I nor anyone else knows what is in his heart or what he really believes. With a resume as empty as his all we can judge him is by his friends and associates.

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au1929 wrote:

Neither I nor anyone else knows what is in his heart or what he really believes. With a resume as empty as his all we can judge him is by his friends and associates.

Well, at least Foxfyre seems to think (and I agree) that we can use his writings and his record to judge him. But if you're not interested in that then you can just judge him by the company he keeps. I expect you to do the same for all the candidates though.

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Obama has said:

Quote:

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial."

"Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn."

Sure when pushed to the wall what else could he say.

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FreeDuck wrote:

au1929 wrote:
Neither I nor anyone else knows what is in his heart or what he really believes. With a resume as empty as his all we can judge him is by his friends and associates.

Well, at least Foxfyre seems to think (and I agree) that we can use his writings and his record to judge him. But if you're not interested in that then you can just judge him by the company he keeps. I expect you to do the same for all the candidates though.

He has no record to speak of and as for his words it would seem that he has captured a good part of the gullible public. Show me his actions and acomplishments that backup his "WORDS"

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FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

FD, I don't have a clue what is in Obama's heart or what views he shares other than what he says he believes, what he proposes, and what he shows to us via his vote/actions/words/writings. I think it would be the height of arrogance for me to speculate on his thoughts or his motives that are not supported by his votes, his words, his writings, etc.

Ok, so based on those things: his votes, words, writings, etc... do you believe that Obama shares the views expressed by his pastor in the speeches in question?

I don't believe Obama when Obama says he never knew about those views until just recently. Therefore it doesn't ring true to me when he says that he wouldn't have stayed in that church if he had known about them and/or that he personally denounced them.

However, "I don't have a clue" really does mean "I don't have a clue". I can say that from all appearances he has tolerated the views expressed by his pastor and has given at least silent consent by continuing to be an active member of that congregation and also by putting Pastor Wright on his campaign team. But is tolerance for views and sharing them the same thing? To me that would be a stretch.

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foxfyre wrote:

Therefore it doesn't ring true to me

I assume this is meant in the same vein as "I heard somewhere from someone that I can't cite because I don't remember." In other words, typical Foxfyre posts.

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au1929 wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Neither I nor anyone else knows what is in his heart or what he really believes. With a resume as empty as his all we can judge him is by his friends and associates.

Well, at least Foxfyre seems to think (and I agree) that we can use his writings and his record to judge him. But if you're not interested in that then you can just judge him by the company he keeps. I expect you to do the same for all the candidates though.

He has no record to speak of and as for his words it would seem that he has captured a good part of the gullible public. Show me his actions and acomplishments that backup his "WORDS"

Well actually he does have a record. You could look at his votes in the US and Illinois senates. You could judge him by his words, both spoken and written, and by his actions and how he has run his campaign. You could also judge him by the company he keeps if you like, but that would put Rev. Wright up against a sea of other respectable and bright people. IMO he comes out smelling like roses in either scenario.

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Thanks for that response, Fox.

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FreeDuck wrote:

au1929 wrote:
He has no record to speak of and as for his words it would seem that he has captured a good part of the gullible public. Show me his actions and acomplishments that backup his "WORDS"

Well actually he does have a record. You could look at his votes in the US and Illinois senates.

But, but - that would involve looking things up!

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http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_plans_major_race_speech_tomorrow.html

Barack Obama will give a major speech on "the larger issue of race in this campaign," he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.

He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

"I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign," he said.

He added that he would "talk about how some of these issues are perceived from within the black church issue for example," he said.

He also briefly defended Wright from the image that has come through in a handful of repeatedly televised clips from recent Wright sermons.

"The caricature that's being painted of him is not accurate," he said.

The speech could offer Obama an opportunity to move past the controversy over his pastor, and to turn the conversation to a topic he'd rather focus on: his Christian faith. But the speech also guarantees that the Wright story will continue to dominate political headlines.

Mitt Romney's attempt directly to address his Mormonism last year never decisively put the issue to rest for some voters.

Obama's schedule puts him in Philadelphia tomorrow.

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sozobe wrote:

nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
No one is 'going after' any of TUCC's members, either, unless they happen to be running for president. See the difference?

Obama has said:

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial."

"Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn."

Which is true?

Why can't they both be true?

"I don't think my church is actually particularly [two qualifiers] controversial"

If taken against the background of churches in America (the other black churches, the Falwell churches, the Pat Robertson churches, the Nation of Islam, etc., etc.) it's not a particularly controversial church. Note, he's talking about the whole church, not just Wright. By all accounts the church -- as an institution, and the many people within it -- has done a whole lot of plain old regular useful helpful churchly things.

"All the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones I vehemently condemn"

Within this not particularly controversial church, a pastor occasionally made controversial statements. Some of the worst of those occasional statements were collected in a video. Obama condemns those statements.

Your interpretation is the one that his supporters will go with. I wonder if he'll bring it up again in his speech tomorrow. Think he'll take questions afterwards?

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Probably. Nimh recently posted something about a campaign stop where he spoke for 20 minutes and took questions for 45 -- the Chi Trib editorial board thing was pretty much nothing but questions for an hour and a half I think it was (maybe 2.5).

That's generally been his M.O. when he's had time.

Maybe not, we'll see.

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Meanwhile, definitely no re-do in Florida.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/breaking_florida_will_not_hold.php

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