ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 08:49 pm
nimh wrote:
The opponent faces the exact same kind of headwind.


No. It's not the same.

The way people can speak about women in the U.S. is simply not acceptable when speaking about people with a number of other 'disadvantages' - including race. There's been a fair bit of academic writing on the subject, but it's not sexy in news terms.

But no, it's not the same.

~~~

Still doesn't matter to me in terms of the current Democratic race in the U.S., as the remaining candidates don't seem distinguishable by their platforms. Very disappointing.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:36 pm
Holy ****, Hillary's starting to look like she has a chance again. I was five seconds away from buying about ten shares of Hillary stock on Intrade last week when it was at 19. I chickened out. If she comes back now, I'm really going to kick myself.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:38 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
I am getting a good feeling here in Dallas watching all these voters standing in line TO CAUCUS just like Obama has been telling them to do.

Obama is getting the early votes roughly 60 to 40...STATEWIDE!

Great prediction, on what, .000001% of the votes to be cast?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:54 pm
The pundits are giving Hillary the thumbs up. It doesn't seem to matter what happens in Texas now.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:57 pm
ehBeth wrote:
nimh wrote:
The opponent faces the exact same kind of headwind.


No. It's not the same.

The way people can speak about women in the U.S. is simply not acceptable when speaking about people with a number of other 'disadvantages' - including race.

Dunno, words are words, which can be bad - but votes are votes. And I just came across this snippet from the Tribune politics blog:

    Two interesting snippits from the MSNBC exit poll out of Ohio. * Nearly one in five voters said gender was "important" in their decision on which Democrat to pick. Clinton won among those voters, 57 percent to 43 percent. * Another one in five voters said race was "important" in their decision. Clinton also won those voters, 57 to 43.

In short: Clinton's gender identity yielded her a net benefit in votes; Obama's race cost him a net deficit in votes.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:02 pm
clinton has pulled ahead in texas
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:05 pm
Sure is quiet in here tonight...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:06 pm
nimh wrote:
Quote:
Now what does it mean if one of these two candidates continually brings up his/her particular headwind as reason for the troubles she's facing, for the obstacles (s)he's failed to overcome or had to battle to overcome - or in general just keeps complaining that (s)he faces such a headwind - in this race?

In that context, it's little more than a red herring. The opponent faces the exact same kind of headwind. So there's no relative disadvantage there.


nimh

I never mind your take on things.

Two important points here. First, whatever Hillary has said about gender (or suggested, etc) doesn't much interest me and it certainly isn't what has caused me to think and yak about the subject as much as has happened. I actually consider her comments or those emanating from her campaign on this matter to be too self-serving or strategic to be of value. The red flags have come out of the broad discourse we here are all tuned into presently. She and Bill have complained of a couple of things - not gender related - with which I do agree (her comment on the number of times in debates where the first question went to her, and Bill's comment that the press has treated her shabbily) but I agree not because they say so but because it matches my perceptions.

The second point relates to gender vs race and which produces the more significant and difficult problem. Coming into race I assumed that race prejudices would prove the more significant. I don't think so now. The surprise of that goes a good way to explaining my interest/focus/obsession (feel free to choose).

Beth's post above gets it right, I think. There is just no way that the Wash Post column we've been referring to could have ever been published in even a small local paper if those sorts of derogatory stereotypes involved race. Likewise Dowd's 'joke'. And much, much more. The fellow who started C.U.N.T. wouldn't even have gotten in the door of Fox if his group had been N.I.G.G.E.R.

So there's something going on here which I had definitely not properly grasped. I think most people haven't either. I have some ideas about this but I need to let them move around a bit in my noggin (and I don't think this thread or maybe even this moment is the right place and time) because this amazing race between a black and a woman is really muddying up the whole matter.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:06 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
clinton has pulled ahead in texas


By what, 200 votes?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:06 pm
yup...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:08 pm
Well, that is good news.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:11 pm
nimh

Another point re exit polls or surveys etc...for folks to answer about motives in a manner that proves enlightening, they have to fathom their motives. To the degree that this stuff remains uninspected or inaccurately conceived, the answers given will miss it.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:15 pm
i just made yet another donation to hill...
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:37 pm
only a percentage point... but hill widens her lead in texas..
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:42 pm
kickycan wrote:
Sure is quiet in here tonight...

It was so quiet earlier that you'd coulda heard 'Present' Obama sit on his hands.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:46 pm
The pundits were saying that Texas is going to be difficult to figure out until all the precincts are in. Too many hats or something to that effect.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  0  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:07 pm
Since Dan Rather is not on the job, someone needs to be in charge of dispensing these:

Quote:
Texan Sayings

Author unknown

"If I tell you a hen dips snuff, you can look under her wing."

You can rest assured I'm telling you the truth.




"I hope to be kicked to death by grasshoppers if it ain't the truth."

I'm not lying.




"You could ride to town on that blade without a blanket."

A dull knife.




"He could bite through a side of bacon without greasing a gum."

He has a big mouth.




"His hogs are so poor it takes six of them to make a shadow."

Poverty stricken.




"Bigger'n Dallas."

Expensive, large.




"Scarce as hen's teeth and frog fangs."

A rare occurrence.




"You can't tell how deep a well is by measuring the length of the pump handle."

Looks can be deceiving.




"I think that ol' gal swallered a watermelon seed."

A pregnant woman.




"I've seen cows hurt worse than this and get well."

A reference to a poorly-cooked or rare steak.




"Who stuck the burr under your saddle?"

Who made you mad?




"Nobody ever drowned in sweat."

Hard work never hurt anyone.




"He's making three tracks in the dirt."

He's so tired he's dragging.




"Watch out or you'll plow up snakes."

Be careful what you say or you'll create a problem.




"Get down and cool the seat of your saddle."

Come in and visit for a while.




"An empty bucket makes the most racket."

A shallow or superficial person usually talks a lot, but says nothing of importance.




"Some folks are all right until they get two pairs of britches."

Prosperity often affects people adversely.




"Let's call in the dogs and see if they're wet."

I wonder if it's raining outside.




"He's trying to throw a wide loop with a short rope."

He's trying to be something he isn't.




"I feel like I've been rode hard and put up wet."

Exhausted.




"A dry well teaches us the worth of water."

We seldom appreciate the best things in life.




"He has more guts than you can hang on a fence."


Unafraid.





"I can't cotton to that."

I don't like it.




"Everytime I stand up, my mind sits down."

Unable to think clearly.




"Don't let your mouth overload your tail."

Don't talk too much.




"The time to kill a snake is when he raises his head."

Be decisive in your actions. When a problem arises, attend to it.





"Like tryin' to scratch your ear with your elbow."

An effort that cannot produce results.




"Throwin' your rope before you make a loop ain't gonna catch the cow."

Be prepared before you act.




"Every man is born free and equal. If he gets married, that's his fault."

Marriage is restrictive.




"A liar needs a good memory."
"Figures never lie, but liars can figure."

Lies cause trouble.




"A bird in the hand causes a big mess."

Things aren't always what they seem to be.





"Friendly as fire ants."

Hostile.





"If you put his brains in a bumblebee, he would fly backwards."

Not very bright.




"He'd foul up a two-car funeral."

Error-prone.





"He can eat corn through a picket fence."

Buck-toothed.




"He's studyin' to be a half-wit, and I'm afraid he ain't gonna make it."

Lacks wisdom.





"He's a hundred dollar saddle and a twenty dollar horse man. "

Lacks a sense of value.





"That horse will throw him so high that birds'll build nests in his ears before he hits the ground."

A wild bucking horse, or a bad decision.





"I covered my back with my belly."

Sleeping in the open without blankets.





"You can cut off a dog's tail, but you can't sew it back."

A bad mistake can't be corrected. Make sure of your intent and purpose before you start something.





"Nothin' dries as quick as a tear."

Problems soon pass.





"A diarrhea of words and a constipation of thoughts."

Meaningless conversation.




"Dirt shows up on the cleanest cotton."

Misdeeds by pious individuals are evident to everyone.





"How's momma and them?"

A greeting meaning, "How are you?"






"We've howdyed but we ain't shook."

We haven't been formally introduced.






Any volunteers?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:14 pm
How about all hat and no cattle for Mr. Obama.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:26 pm
blatham wrote:
nimh wrote:
Quote:
Now what does it mean if one of these two candidates continually brings up his/her particular headwind as reason for the troubles she's facing, for the obstacles (s)he's failed to overcome or had to battle to overcome - or in general just keeps complaining that (s)he faces such a headwind - in this race?

In that context, it's little more than a red herring. The opponent faces the exact same kind of headwind. So there's no relative disadvantage there.


nimh

I never mind your take on things.

Two important points here. First, whatever Hillary has said about gender (or suggested, etc) doesn't much interest me and it certainly isn't what has caused me to think and yak about the subject as much as has happened. I actually consider her comments or those emanating from her campaign on this matter to be too self-serving or strategic to be of value. The red flags have come out of the broad discourse we here are all tuned into presently. She and Bill have complained of a couple of things - not gender related - with which I do agree (her comment on the number of times in debates where the first question went to her, and Bill's comment that the press has treated her shabbily) but I agree not because they say so but because it matches my perceptions.

The second point relates to gender vs race and which produces the more significant and difficult problem. Coming into race I assumed that race prejudices would prove the more significant. I don't think so now. The surprise of that goes a good way to explaining my interest/focus/obsession (feel free to choose).

Beth's post above gets it right, I think. There is just no way that the Wash Post column we've been referring to could have ever been published in even a small local paper if those sorts of derogatory stereotypes involved race. Likewise Dowd's 'joke'. And much, much more. The fellow who started C.U.N.T. wouldn't even have gotten in the door of Fox if his group had been N.I.G.G.E.R.

So there's something going on here which I had definitely not properly grasped. I think most people haven't either. I have some ideas about this but I need to let them move around a bit in my noggin (and I don't think this thread or maybe even this moment is the right place and time) because this amazing race between a black and a woman is really muddying up the whole matter.



Sure. But does that mean I, lefty fem much of the time, have to vote for her? I like Obama's mind better.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:48 pm
Oss

No, no, no, no. It doesn't mean anything at all regarding who one should vote for.

But unfortunately there's a little godamn twist in here. It may very well be that it should have meaning for some folks who are voting against one candidate.
0 Replies
 
 

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