maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:06 pm
Re: Obama's Hollow "Judgment" and Empty Record
nimh wrote:
So then our eyes turn to Obama, who did pass that test,


Obama DIDN'T TAKE THE TEST!
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:06 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, Obama can't have it both ways. His message thus far has been to keep jobs in the US.


But there is no way he can force that to happen.
He can write all the bills he wants, but he cannot force a company to stay somewhere when they are losing money.



Ever heard of the Bully Pulpit?


Yes, and if he does try that, whats to stop a company from just closing its doors permanently?


Somewhere, there must be a point you are trying to make.


I will make this simple for you...

HOW is Obama going to keep jobs in the US, when he cant force companies to stay in the US if they dont want to?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:07 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, Obama can't have it both ways. His message thus far has been to keep jobs in the US.


But there is no way he can force that to happen.
He can write all the bills he wants, but he cannot force a company to stay somewhere when they are losing money.



Ever heard of the Bully Pulpit?


Yes, and if he does try that, whats to stop a company from just closing its doors permanently?


Somewhere, there must be a point you are trying to make.


I will make this simple for you...

HOW is Obama going to keep jobs in the US, when he cant force companies to stay in the US if they dont want to?


Change the laws allowing companies to do the level of business they do in the US while being based (for tax reasons) overseas.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:09 pm
He'll have to make them an offer they can't refuse. Be creative.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:37 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, Obama can't have it both ways. His message thus far has been to keep jobs in the US.


But there is no way he can force that to happen.
He can write all the bills he wants, but he cannot force a company to stay somewhere when they are losing money.



Ever heard of the Bully Pulpit?


Yes, and if he does try that, whats to stop a company from just closing its doors permanently?


Somewhere, there must be a point you are trying to make.


I will make this simple for you...

HOW is Obama going to keep jobs in the US, when he cant force companies to stay in the US if they dont want to?



It is called leadership! That is spelled l-e-a-d-e-r-s-h-i-p, something that has been sorely lacking the last dreadful seven years.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:44 pm
...not sure why Rezko is still an issue for the Obama campaign. Didn't Rezko also head a multi-million dollar fund raising campaign for Dubya?

I don't recall hearing about Rezko during Bush's second campaign. If the man is dirty, isn't he dirty to those of any political stripe?
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:14 pm
candidone1 wrote:
...not sure why Rezko is still an issue for the Obama campaign. Didn't Rezko also head a multi-million dollar fund raising campaign for Dubya?

I don't recall hearing about Rezko during Bush's second campaign. If the man is dirty, isn't he dirty to those of any political stripe?


Could be a question of judgement. Obama says he knew Rezko was being investigated by the FBI when he did the deal. (Bone-headed mistake/poor judgement - you decide).

Could be that the Rezko trial started today and Obama is named in the indictment, according to this report in the London Times.

I don't think Rezko was under investigation when he donated to Bush, I'd be surprised if Bush is named in the indictment and finally, Bush isn't running for president.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:17 pm
Quote:
Buried on page 59 of the indictment ...



You are really grasping for straws, nappy headed slut.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:20 pm
nappyheadslut wrote:
Could be a question of judgement.[sic]


Someone who chose the handle nappy headed slut is questioning someone else's judgement?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:36 pm
sozobe wrote:
From c.i.'s article:

Quote:
Mr. Richardson, saying that it was vital to Democrats' hopes in the general election in November to mount a positive, unifying campaign, said on the CBS News program "Face the Nation" that "whoever has the most delegates after Tuesday, a clear lead, should be, in my judgment, the nominee."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/us/politics/02cnd-campaign.html

That's big! I am not counting Hillary out, by a long shot. I'm annoyed at how the goal posts seem to have been moved -- first it was assumed that she'd win in both Ohio and Texas, the question was how big the margin would be and how many delegates she'd pick up. Now there seems to be an expectation that Obama should win both. I don't know how wide-spread it is.

But it seems pretty likely that Obama will have the lead in delegates after March 4th. So Richardson came really close to endorsing Obama, there.

We'll see.


The idea that Hillary has to win both states to remain viable has been hyped, repeated so many times we all have begun to think of it as truth. Hillary is only behind by 100 delegates and she'll win a good number of delegates on Tuesday. She's not going to drop out until she is actually losing. Why should she? She knows her supporters are depending on her. In large numbers, we're all still giving money. The importance of Obama's momentum has been largely over played.

The breakdown of voters in Texas and Ohio is interesting. White men voting in large numbers for Obama. White women for Hillary. This is a clear gender gap. And the generational gap is also telling. Older women for Hillary, younger everybody else for Obama. African Americans are voting for Obama in very high percentages. White women over a certain age are backing Hillary. This gender, age and racial bias has received very little coverage as a topic of discussion in the media. The poll numbers are displayed with little and infrequent comment on their implications about prejudice.

Older women continue to be swept aside for younger women and men in every arena of business and public life. It's not a new story. How many male news anchors are asked to retire simply because they're getting a little bit older?

Hillary's seen by many mostly male pundits as some evil witch, stirring her brew. She "cackles," she's "shrill," (she's called "Shrillary,") she "screeches," she "whines," (rather than bringing up an important issue for comment) she's a "bitch," she has an "angry style," (rather than assertive) she's compared to a "nagging housewife," a "Hillary nut cracker" is on sale in a Minneapolis "progressive" shop, and according to Jon Stewart, "she'll be the first president we can't throw water on." James Hirsen of Newsmax says that Hillary's new theme song is, "I Am Woman, Hear Me Sniffle." Maureen Dowd.....whom I formerly respected ....... characterizes Hillary as a "sashaying", "relentless," nag and thinks Hillary uses issues of bias in order to win, whereas Obama does not. I, on the other hand think she points to it far less than she should.

Here we are, all of us good liberals. We've been concerned about sexism, racism or age prejudice for a long time. How then can we explain the relative absence of discussion on this topic among ourselves and in the media during this nomination campaign?

When I listen to the news coverage and the pundits, it sounds like they're talking about a poker game in that now growingly hideous over used analogy.......the this card and the that card and cards delt from the bottom of the deck.

Following Obama's self serving advice, as voters, we're all trying to be on our good behavior and not "divide" by calling attention to issues of prejudice as if, we can ignore the clear reality of racism and sexism ...... like if we ignore it, it will go away. Right.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:42 pm
Older white women have projected themselves onto Hillary Clinton, and see attacks on her as attacks on themselves. It's quite apparent that this is the case, and sort of sad, really. They see all criticism as sexism. It's an aspect of the 'professional victim' wing of the Dem party.

A hint for you - Hillary is already losing. She's behind by quite a bit. She needs to start catching up quick in order to stay viable.

She probably won't catch up tomorrow night at all. She would have to win OH and TX by more then ten points each in order to do so. I doubt either is going to happen, though OH is more likely then TX.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:49 pm
It was Bill Clinton who said Hillary has to win Texas and Ohio and she does. If she doesn't quit voluntarily , the powers that be will drum her out of the race.

BTW the latest delegate count I saw had Obama up by over 150 delegates, not 100.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:55 pm
Roxxxanne = what happens when we close the mental hospitals.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:00 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Roxxxanne, what happens when we close the mental hospitals?



You will be homeless.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:12 pm
(Points to Rox for a take-down, there).
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:15 pm
I've seen several variations of of this in various places:

Quote:
So I'm at lunch today with coworkers, here in Columbus, Ohio, and the primaries of course are the hot topic of discussion. The group, mostly conservative, Republican leaning White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, agrees across the board they will be voting for a Democrat tomorrow because McCain is a lock in our collective opinion for the GOP nomination.

Now what shocked me was how many of the group (a majority in fact) are voting for Hillary because they like McCain's chances this fall against her better than against Obama. In fact as I prod more, they to a man admit they'd rather see Obama in the White House than Clinton, but ultimately their allegiance is to McCain, hence the vote for Clinton.


Ugh.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/gop-sabotage.html
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:24 pm
Quote:

The idea that Hillary has to win both states to remain viable has been hyped, repeated so many times we all have begun to think of it as truth. Hillary is only behind by 100 delegates and she'll win a good number of delegates on Tuesday. She's not going to drop out until she is actually losing. Why should she? She knows her supporters are depending on her. In large numbers, we're all still giving money. The importance of Obama's momentum has been largely over played.


This is hogwash.

First... Hillary has run a simply horrendous campaign... and all of the complaining (oops I don't want to use the word "whining") of Hillary supporters about the fact she isn't doing very well is ridiculous. Hillary came into the race with as much advantage as one could hope for. She and her campaign staff have made some really dumb strategic blunders.

Second. Obama has run a very brilliant campaign. He runs on his strengths (hope and change) and he has answered his weaknesses (he counters experience with judgement). He has inspired his supporters and spoken to people.

Whatever side you are on... it is clear that Obama is attracting the support of many more voters than Clinton. All this complaining about the fact that Obama is generating good press and getting strong grass roots support is silly. That's what you are supposed to do to win a political campaign.

Now lets talk about delegates.

1. The Democratic Party awards delegates proportionally. This mean even if you lose a state you still get delegates. This means that an 100 or 150 delegate lead is very hard to overcome.

In short, the fact that Obama is up this much is a big deal.

2. The media story is part of the campaign. Each candidate has a chance to spin the media story. The media was fully behind Clinton as the inevitable choice for a long time. Complaining about the fact the media thinks that winning 11 states in a row is a big deal is silly.

3. Winning 11 states in a row is a big deal.

Obama has won Northern States. Obama has won Southern States. Obama has done very well with White voters. Obama has done very well with Black voters. Obama has even done very well with white women voters... and Obama has won 11 states in a row.

Now let's talk about Texas and Ohio.

Clinton (as part of the horrible campaign strategy I mentioned above) set herself up to have Texas and Ohio as must win states. She had very little ground operations in many of the "minor" states... and has done very poorly in most of these said states (Obama has received more than 60% of the vote in several).

This is my prediction.

Clinton will lose Texas... at this point she will have lost the media narrative (and this is her own fault), she will also start losing super delegates (again her own fault) and support.

I bet that one week from today... under a great deal of pressure from the party and motivated by the understanding that going forward will hurt her future political endeavors... she will withdraw from the race (or "suspend" the campaign).

I hope that she and her supporters are adult enough to accept the fact that they lost a hard fought race... partially because they didn't run the best campaign, and partially because many many Americans prefer Obama (both because of his promise and because of political skills and a great campaign.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:27 pm
sozobe wrote:
I've seen several variations of of this in various places:

Quote:
So I'm at lunch today with coworkers, here in Columbus, Ohio, and the primaries of course are the hot topic of discussion. The group, mostly conservative, Republican leaning White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, agrees across the board they will be voting for a Democrat tomorrow because McCain is a lock in our collective opinion for the GOP nomination.

Now what shocked me was how many of the group (a majority in fact) are voting for Hillary because they like McCain's chances this fall against her better than against Obama. In fact as I prod more, they to a man admit they'd rather see Obama in the White House than Clinton, but ultimately their allegiance is to McCain, hence the vote for Clinton.


Ugh.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/gop-sabotage.html


I didn't hear an "Ugh" when people were doing this to Romney to keep the Republican race going.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:28 pm
Marc Ambinder does a Q-and-A about the situation Dems find ourselves in:

Quote:
Existential Realities Of The Democratic Race

03 Mar 2008 05:49 pm

Q. What does "win" mean?

A. The winner of the Democratic nomination is not the person who wins the most states, not the person who wins the most votes, is not the person who gives the best speeches... it's the person who wins 2024 (25? -- we're not sure yet) delegates at the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

Q. Can Hillary Clinton win the nomination?

A. Maybe.

Q. Can you be more specific? Is it mathematically possible for her to win the nomination?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it likely that she will win the nomination?

A. Based on the math alone and a reasonable projection of external events, no.

Q. But you said it's possible.

A. Yes. But lots of things have to break her way. If, say, voting ends and the press discovers that Obama has a secret second family in Idaho and all his superdelegates abandon him; if, for some reason, she wins 75% of the popular vote in the states after Ohio and Texas and half the remaining superdelegates; if, by slow attrition, he closes the delegate gap to about 70 and picks off two thirds of the remaining superdelegates; if the pledged (Obama) delegates concur with the credentials committee and seat the (Clintonian) Florida and Michigan delegations) -- then, yes, it's possible.

Q. So should she drop out?

A. I don't know. Obama's campaign emphasizes the math. The Clinton campaign emphasizes... well, the more external factors.

Q. Well, does Barack Obama's current pleged delegate lead reflect a big lead in terms of the preference of Democrats?

A. It reflects an edge -- but not a big one. According to Real Clear Politics's calculations, even without the votes of Floridians and Michiganders, for every ten Democrats who've voted for Barack Obama, nine have voted for Hillary Clinton. With the votes of Michigan and Florida Democrats factored in, the gap narrows to 288,476 -- or less than 2% of Obama's totals.

Q. Why is the pledged delegate gap so big, then?

A. Strategy and momentum and enthusiasm. Obama's campaign had the foresight to run up the delegate count in the organizable caucus states, betting on the fact that Clinton would not compete there. Obama's support seems to follow some sort of political's Boyle's law: as the pressure increases, the volume increases -- the more contained the support is, the more concentrated it is.

Q. Did HRC fail to live up to her own expectations?

A. Unquestionably. That's one of the main reasons why the Clinton campaign is having trouble selling their spin today. As the Obama campaign pointed out today, numerous Clinton officials projected that, by March 4, the campaigns would be roughly equal in terms of the delegate count.

Q. Will the Democratic Party unite, its expected nominee despite this infighting?

A. Unquestionably.

Q. Will the Democratic Party be hurt in the fall if Clinton stays in the race?

A. Hard to say. On the one hand, that's spin designed to pressure HRC to get out. On the other, if Obama wins the nomination, he may well have been softened up a bit by Clinton's frontal assault on his national security credentials.


Seems like good enough news for Obama to me.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:29 pm
Gawd I hope you're right, ebrown.

The Canada thing keeps getting weirder:

Quote:
Well, this is interesting. MSNBC has shown video of today's Canadian Parliament session in which Jack Layton, the head of Canada's New Democratic Party, [in which he] loudly accuses Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative Party government of trying to sabotage Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign.

    LAYTON: The prime minister's office has been interfering in the Democratic primaries with false accusations trying to silence Barrack Obama who simply wants to amend the Nafta. It is completely unacceptable for that kind of interference to be stalking place. Will the prime minster fire the source of the interference, fire his chief of staff? HARPER: The Canadian embasy in Washington has issued a statement indicating its regret at the fact that information has come out that would imply Sen. Obama has been saying different things in public than in private. Mr. Speaker, the government of Canada does not not condone this and certainly regrets any implicationÂ… (the video ends)


Today's dustup in the Canadian House of Commons was a follow-on to charges made by Canadian liberals in recent days that Canada's Conservative government, upset by Obama's anti-Nafta rhetoric, is trying to harm the senator from Illinois's electoral chances as reported in this story from the Canadian Broadcasting Corp website.


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/canadian_leader_accused_of_oba.html
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

So....Will Biden Be VP? - Question by blueveinedthrobber
My view on Obama - Discussion by McGentrix
Obama/ Love Him or Hate Him, We've Got Him - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Obama fumbles at Faith Forum - Discussion by slkshock7
Expert: Obama is not the antichrist - Discussion by joefromchicago
Obama's State of the Union - Discussion by maxdancona
Obama 2012? - Discussion by snood
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Obama '08?
  3. » Page 567
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.19 seconds on 07/15/2025 at 02:50:09