cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:13 pm
Brand X wrote:
You can't use 'x' in your post...it's plagiarizing. :wink:


Like in you name? LOL
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:20 pm
nimh wrote:
Especially interesting for Sozobe, I'm guessing Smile


Most definitely, thanks!

This is sure my "on the ground" experience:

Quote:
"It's like we had this whole movement built up before the campaign staff even got here," says McCall, 36. In a few months, McCall, a political novice, has built an organization rivaling that of some state senators who form the backbone of Clinton's establishment support. "By the time they finally opened the office," she says, "this place was packed."
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:48 pm
Following up on a discussion that's been held intermittently in this thread as well:

Quote:
Experts to Obama: No More Harry and Louise!

As you may have heard, Hillary Clinton recently blasted Barack Obama over a piece of campaign literature, in which the Obama campaign insinuated that Clinton's health care plan would force people to buy insurance they couldn't afford. Clinton objected both to the substance of the claim, which she said was inaccurate, and the imagery, which was evocative of the infamous Harry and Louise advertisements insurance lobbyists used to kill universal coverage back in 1993 and 1994.
It's not a new mailer. On the contrary, it first got attention early in the month, when it was circulating in some of the Super Tuesday states. But it seems to have resurfaced in Ohio, which is why Clinton began speaking about it again.

While Clinton's statement succeeded in generating attention, it also sparked some derision. My friend Andrew Sullivan, for example, said Clinton sounded "desperate and whiny," while noting that "the mailer isn't that bad, for Pete's sake."

Well, it seems a group of distinguished health care policy experts beg to disagree with that assessment, at least when it comes to the content of the mailer. In a joint letter released late Monday, they condemn the ad in no uncertain terms -- and call for Obama to stop using it. Here's the key passage (full text and signatories below):

    Unfortunately, the Obama campaign is circulating in Ohio and elsewhere its "Harry and Louise" mailers that unfairly and unconstructively attack Senator Clinton's universal health care reform plan. These mailers purposely revive "Harry and Louise," the actors hired by the insurance industry to help destroy health reform in the first Clinton Administration. They make the inaccurate claim that the plan would force people to purchase unaffordable health insurance. Senator Clinton's plan clearly recognizes that universal coverage cannot be achieved unless health coverage is affordable, and her plan provides subsidies to ensure it is affordable. The "Harry and Louise" mailer literally takes a page from the playbook of the health insurance industry and other special interests which spent over $300 million to kill any meaningful healthcare reform in 1993-94. It undermines serious dialogue on needed changes to the health care system. We call on all candidates for President to recommit to a civil, positive discourse that does not undermine the larger goal of quality, affordable healthcare for all Americans. To that end, we urge Senator Obama's campaign to cease using a mailing that is clearly inconsistent with this goal.
The list of signatories includes some pretty impressive names -- from economists like Columbia's Sherry Glied, MIT's Jonathan Gruber, and Princeton Uwe's Reinhardt; to people like Nancy Min DeParle and Bruce Vladeck, each of whom had stints running Medicare and Medicaid during the Clinton Administration. (As far as I know, neither Glied, Gruber, nor Reinhdart have formal ties to any single candidate; I don't know about the others.*) Also on the letter: Peter Harbage, who was John Edwards' health care adviser.

But forget the names. The letter's importance is its focus on why the Obama mailer is so disturbing. As readers of this space know well (maybe too well?), the key difference between Clinton and Obama on health care is that she'd require everybody to have insurance and he wouldn't. And, as I've written a gazillion times, I think the evidence suggests pretty strongly that Clinton has made the technically correct, if politically difficult, call: In a system based on private insurance, a lot of people won't obtain even affordable insurance without some sort of requirement. (A single-payer system would probably be even better, but Obama isn't proposing that.)

There is, to be sure, a legitimate debate to be had over exactly how big a difference a mandate would make -- and how just how close to truly universal coverage a mandate can get us. That's particularly true given the fact that Clinton has not specificed exactly how she'd enforce her mandate, although she has indicated she'd be willing to look at garnishing wages and imposing financial penalties if that's what it takes. Insofar as Clinton has said her plan would definitively achieve universal coverage, that's a stretch (although hardly as big a stretch as the one Obama has made when he said his plan would reach as many, if not more, than hers would).

Another argument Obama has made -- that it's better to wait on a mandate, until other reforms are in place -- is also a reasonable one. I don't agree with it, for reasons I've stated before, but it's an honest and legitimate difference of opinon.

But those aren't the sorts of arguments the campaign is making in this mailer. Instead, they are suggesting Clinton would force people to put up cash for insurance they couldn't afford. That's an explosive charge -- one that evokes the very worst stereotypes of overbearing liberalism and hands opponents of universal coverage a rhetorical bludgeon. If Congress tries to pass a mandate, which after all is a key element of many reform bills, opponents can always say "even Barack Obama says it's a bad idea."

More important, though, the claim just doesn't stand up under scrutiny. Clinton has allocated $110 billion a year for her health care program, which is actually a lot more than Obama has dedicated to his. (He assumes greater cost savings; I"m still trying to figure out if that's fair.) Some of Clinton's money will go to bolster Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program; most of the rest will go to providing subsidies, so that even middle class people get assistance buying insurance if they need it. Kenneth Thorpe, an Emory Univeristy economist, told the Wall Street Journal that in his estimates that sum of money was sufficient to make insurance accessible to everybody. But -- and this is essential -- Clinton has also indicated that if it takes even more money to make insurance affordable, she'll find it somewhere in the budget.

The email with this letter arrived in my inbox late, so I haven't had a chance to get official word from the Obama campaign. (I'll update as soon as I do.) In the past, campaign spokesmen have said they think it's a fair mailer. If they have more to say, I'm guessing that they will argue that, until Clinton provides a precise definition of "affordability," there's always the possibility she'd be asking people to pay more than they should. But that seems like a pretty remote possibility to me, given not just the budgetary commitment Clinton has made but also her own political history. Does anybody seriously believe she would sign a law forcing families making $40,000 a year to give up basic necessities in order to pay for exorbitantly priced health insurance? (For that matter, does anybody believe Ted Kennedy, John Dingell, and the rest of the Democrats in Congress would ever vote for such a measure?)

Obama says he's genuinely committed both to universal health insurance and to fostering a new politics free of old-fashioned demogoguery. I'd like to believe him and, more often than not, I do. But the reemergence of this mailer makes me wonder if I'm being naive.

Still, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention one other thing: Notwithstanding these attacks and the fact that Obama's plan seems less appealing to me than Clinton's, the differences between the two still pale in comparison to the differences they both have with presumptive Republican nominee John McCain. But you can read about that here, in the dead-tree edition of TNR.

--Jonathan Cohn

*UPDATE: Just to be clear, one of the signatories, Cal-Berkeley economist and former Clinton Administration official Laura Tyson, is a senior economic adviser to the Clinton campaign. Jeanne Lambrew of the University of Texas-Austin has said she advised the Clinton campaign on a few occasions, although my understanding is that it was all rather informal. In any event, I didn't mean to imply none of the people signing the letter had formally backed Clinton. (Looking down the list, there may be some others.) As with the last group letter in this debate, which also came with an impressive list of intellectuals backing it, the signatories include some people tied to the campaign. But I was more struck -- as I was then -- by the high-profile names like Gruber, Glied, and Reinhardt whom I know not to be affiliated.

**ANOTHER UPDATE: Just to be clear about one more thing, if you're sick of reading about this, believe me when I say I'm sick of writing about it. So for something different, follow the link to the article about McCain's health plan at the end of the item. That's where the debate is going in the future, as it should.


Quote:
FULL TEXT OF LETTER

February 25, 2008

To Interested Parties:

This presidential campaign has lived up to its historic potential. Bold visions and policies have been offered. And the debate has been vigorous. However, a debate that generates more heat than light sets back rather than advances shared goals. This has happened in health care.

Senators Clinton and Obama have both embraced what should be a non-partisan goal: ensuring affordable, quality coverage for all Americans. They both have policies to ensure access to affordable health insurance. Both rely on an individual requirement with enforcement provisions to ensure universality for targeted populations. The main difference between their plans is that Senator Clinton would make health security a right and responsibility for all Americans, while Senator Obama would do so only for children and thereby cover fewer Americans.

Regardless of one's views about whether the individual requirements in healthcare should apply to all American adults or just American parents of children, all people committed to universal healthcare can agree that our policy debates should focus on substance.

Unfortunately, the Obama campaign is circulating in Ohio and elsewhere its "Harry and Louise" mailers that unfairly and unconstructively attack Senator Clinton's universal health care reform plan. These mailers purposely revive "Harry and Louise," the actors hired by the insurance industry to help destroy health reform in the first Clinton Administration. They make the inaccurate claim that the plan would force people to purchase unaffordable health insurance. Senator Clinton's plan clearly recognizes that universal coverage cannot be achieved unless health coverage is affordable, and her plan provides subsidies to ensure it is affordable.

The "Harry and Louise" mailer literally takes a page from the playbook of the health insurance industry and other special interests which spent over $300 million to kill any meaningful healthcare reform in 1993-94. It undermines serious dialogue on needed changes to the health care system.

We call on all candidates for President to recommit to a civil, positive discourse that does not undermine the larger goal of quality, affordable healthcare for all Americans. To that end, we urge Senator Obama's campaign to cease using a mailing that is clearly inconsistent with this goal.

While the current and/or past affiliation of the individuals are listed, please note that the individuals listed are representing themselves and not their institutions.

Signed by (in alphabetical order):

Louis Cooper, MD
Former President, American Academy of Pediatrics

Nancy-Ann DeParle, JD
Former Administrator, HCFA (now CMS)

Sherry Glied, PhD
Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University

Jonathan Gruber, PhD
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Peter Harbage
Former Edwards Health Advisor

David Kessler, MD
Former Commissioner, FDA

Jeanne Lambrew, PhD
LBJ School of Public Affairs, University of Texas at Austin

Jack Lewin, MD
American College of Cardiology

Karen Pollitz
Health Policy Institute, Georgetown University

Irwin Redlener, MD
Children's Health Fund

Uwe Reinhardt, PhD
Princeton University

Elena Rios, MD
National Hispanic Medical Association

Alice Rivlin, PhD
Former Director, Congressional Budget Office

Sara Rosenbaum, JD
School of Public health and Health Services, The George Washington University

Allan Rosenfeld, MD
Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University

Donna Shalala, PhD
Former Secretary of Health and Human Services

Laura Tyson, PhD
Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley

Bruce Vladeck, PhD
Former Administrator, HCFA (now CMS)

Alan Weil, JD
National Academy for State Health Policy
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 08:33 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I agree that Nimh did an excellent job of laying out political strategy in a broader sense… save the uncharacteristic Party distinctions like this one:
nimh wrote:
Republicans tend to win elections thanks to the added plus of personality - by being seen as having the more reliable, regular-guy, sturdy, etc candidate. Distracting the debate from the issues to personality is therefore automatically a plus for the Republicans -
That wasn't a Republican playing the Sax and endearing the blacks while obscuring the facts. Suggesting that likeability is a particularly Republican trait is simply inaccurate. Recent history suggests Republicans have indeed fielded the more likeable candidates, but I think that's more coincidence than conspiracy. I laid out a comparison back on: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:45 pm Post: 1166531 -
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Worry not Deb: Blatham is my buddy and he's even now, as we speak, looking into operations so that he may one day carry my baby.

Okay... are you ready for the secret? Forget that silly political mumbo jumbo, we Americans don't care about irrelevant crap like that. The more you poor your heart about issues that really matter to you, the more you bore us to tears. Learn to play an instrument, or make a movie with a monkey! That's how you win our hearts and minds. It all comes down to who do we like more. Yes, that really is all.









Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/04/bush.kerry/top.bush.kerry.split.0804.a.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.greatdreams.com/bush-gore.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38923000/jpg/_38923581_clinton_dole_300.jpg
Which one of these guys was most likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.debates.org/media/his92a.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/debatingourdestiny/debate_images/date_page_images/bush_dukakis.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.debates.org/media/his84a.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/debatingourdestiny/images/reagan_carter_photo.jpg
Which one of these guys was more likeable? Which guy won?
http://www.debates.org/media/his76.jpg

So save your serious speeches and concerns and pick the most likeable candidate you can find... and then do something useful like smoke a fat one (just don't inhale) or do some lines (just don't admit it) and have some fun! Once you understand what really matters, it should be easy to fill the order. At this juncture; I'll tell you right now; your very best bet would be to put this guy...
http://www.ift-aft.org/news/images/Obama.jpg
...on the fast track. Don't worry about his lack of experience... if you've been paying attention you should realize by now that doesn't really matter. Americans don't care about silly stuff like that.

If you think this post is just a silly joke, start over again at the top and look closely at the pics while pondering the questions that precede them. :wink:

Pity the last picture has been moved, but if you'll check its properties; you'll see I was suggesting a fast track for Obama a year before this thread began… precisely because he is likeable.

I also think your thesis confuses cause and effect.
They made fun of Edward's hair to distract the public. No; he had pretty hair so they made fun of it.
They made fun of Kerry's European stature to distract the public. No; Kerry himself presents this image so it was pointed out.
They labeled Dean Crazy to distract the public. No, they capitalized on an unfortunate gaffe on Dean's part.
They use Obama's name to associate him with Saddam. No, his name just happens to be the same. Naturally, this hasn't gone unnoticed.

The repetition portion of your thesis is spot on… but isn't diabolical in any way. It is a simple principle of sales and marketing. Say I want to advertise a product on the radio: I know going in; listeners will have to hear the commercial 3 to 5 times before they notice it and probably 10 before they actually grab a pen to get a telephone number. The more times they hear it; the more likely they are to purchase. This isn't any kind of reflection of underhandedness, mind you; the formula is the same for good products.

Overall, the thesis is very accurate, but not because of Rove's genius or the deviousness of the Republican spin machine; it is a fundamental of effective marketing technique.
nimh wrote:
It was about the end result not being that regular voters say, "oh, Barack Hussein Obama, yuck", but that after enough of this nonsense, you'll find people saying something like, "I dont know, I just dont like/trust him".
Yes, not unlike a feeling that "You deserve a break today, at McDonald's" or that inexplicable impression that somehow "BASF makes the products you buy, better." (Does anyone even know what they do?)

Further, without some periodic reminder that Hussein is supposed to be bad, I don't believe the general public will assign a negative connotation to Hussein. Do you think of Saddam when the former King of Jordan is mentioned? Do you think you would if said King was in the news daily? I seriously doubt it. John Wayne's beloved stature changed not at all after John Wayne Gacy's mass murder was revealed. Name association by itself just doesn't carry that kind of weight.



I think this is still relevant.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 09:44 pm
The debate that just finished looked like a draw to me. The best moment seemed to be Obama's remark about Iraq: "having driven the car into a ditch, there are only so many ways to get it out. But that's not the question. The question is who decided to drive the car into the ditch in the first place." This quote is from memory, so probably not entirely accurate. But the ditch was certainly a powerful metaphor.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 10:03 pm
yes, the ditch was a very powerful metaphor. As one who marched in every march in DC and NYC before the war started, I do believe that it was indeed a good one.

He won it. She lost it. It was close but it was his to lose and he didn't.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 10:22 pm
Thomas wrote:
The debate that just finished looked like a draw to me. The best moment seemed to be Obama's remark about Iraq: "having driven the car into a ditch, there are only so many ways to get it out. But that's not the question. The question is who decided to drive the car into the ditch in the first place." This quote is from memory, so probably not entirely accurate. But the ditch was certainly a powerful metaphor.


Let's compare the 'ditch' with where Iraq would be if a Democrat had been president and if that Democrat had done things Obama's way.

Saddam would still be dictator of Iraq, filling mass graves with bodies of his political enemies, thumbing his nose at the UN and ignoring his commitments in the cease fire of 1990, which nullified his invasion of Iraq. Iraqis would not have the opportunity to elect their own leaders.

Iraqis had another name for life under Saddam, and it wasn't 'ditch'.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 10:34 pm
Thomas wrote:
The debate that just finished looked like a draw to me. The best moment seemed to be Obama's remark about Iraq: "having driven the car into a ditch, there are only so many ways to get it out. But that's not the question. The question is who decided to drive the car into the ditch in the first place." This quote is from memory, so probably not entirely accurate. But the ditch was certainly a powerful metaphor.


Obama wins on points, b/c her attacks against him failed, spectacularly, and made her look, well, petty.

Like the last debate - she didn't do anything that was necessary to change the narrative.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 10:37 pm
Good points, real life, and exactly what I was thinking. Democrats must think all would be hunky dory with Saddam Hussein still in power, I guess they must think it would be fine for him to continue to kill his political enemies in Iraq by the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, and threaten his neighbors and the world with chemical and biological weapons, as well as continuing to destabilize the entire region with its madman tinkering with his nuclear program as well. Also, I assume the U.N. would think it is perfectly fine for them to continue to issue warnings and resolution upon resolution year after year for another decade or two, while its members wring their hands in utter paralysis while the resolutions and warnings are ignored.

If that path represents staying on the road and not going into the ditch, what kind of a road is that? Not a very good one, and it reminds us that some roads are just as perilous as the ditch. Maybe driving into the ditch is better than staying on a road that goes over a cliff.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 11:41 pm
High Seas wrote:
Quote:
Bernie - this story started in FLA, but has gone international:
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/107170.html


Yes, I've been following the Obama-smear campaign targetting the jewish community for several months now through my own reading and through following several american jewish writers who are attending to this creature.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 26 Feb, 2008 11:45 pm
All these "promises" by the candidates are beginning to sound like previous campgaigns; promises not kept.

I think both Obama and Hillary has a big problem with what they are saying they can do as president. Congress doesn't always cooperate.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 01:33 am
blatham wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Quote:
Bernie - this story started in FLA, but has gone international:
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/107170.html


Yes, I've been following the Obama-smear campaign targetting the jewish community for several months now through my own reading and through following several american jewish writers who are attending to this creature.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you refer to a "smear campaign." As a casual observer, it seems obvious that Obama will be more sympathetic to those politicial interests that advocate the elimination of the state of Israel. That does not strike me as complicated to figure out. Either one feels Israel has a right to exist or they don't, period. I know it is nice to ride the fence and "seek dialogue" with all parties concerned, but at some point, riding the fence just will not work.

How productive is it to seek dialogue, talk to, negotiate with, compromise with, and so forth, with someone that is out to kill you? And when you point this out and oppose someone that advocates such activities, is that a smear campaign?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 01:47 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
All these "promises" by the candidates are beginning to sound like previous campgaigns; promises not kept.

I think both Obama and Hillary has a big problem with what they are saying they can do as president. Congress doesn't always cooperate.


It is getting worse in terms of politicians, especially Democrats, in terms of what they will promise. I heard Obama promise in one debate that he would end global warming. I thought that was quite a promise, not that I even care if it warms up a little. Frankly, I am tired of hearing all the empty and vacant promises to the hoards of ignorant voters that are too dumb to realize the government is not here for the purpose of taking care of them cradle to grave.

I sat in a fast food place today and witnessed the spectacle of mostly fat and listless appearing people eating way more than they need, and as I pondered the spectacle, I realized this country is fast becoming a country full of coddled, spoiled, overfed, out of shape, undisciplined, and wasteful citizens that want the government to take care of them. This country is in big trouble if we don't wake up to where we are headed and get a big attitude adjustment.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 02:05 am
Okie - Guess what? The government is supposed to take care of it's people. It's kind of it's purpose. You call it spoiling because it gives it the particular brand you desire to give it. The truth is that when it comes to the interest of bussiness versus citizens, it'a no-brainer.

People first.

You may have had your realization while in the fast food joint, but let's not forget you were there too. I'll give you permission to make me laugh. Go ahead and tell me you were buying a salad.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 02:39 am
Diest TKO wrote:
Okie - Guess what? The government is supposed to take care of it's people. It's kind of it's purpose. You call it spoiling because it gives it the particular brand you desire to give it. The truth is that when it comes to the interest of bussiness versus citizens, it'a no-brainer.

People first.

You may have had your realization while in the fast food joint, but let's not forget you were there too. I'll give you permission to make me laugh. Go ahead and tell me you were buying a salad.

T
K
O

The purpose of government is to guarantee us the right to pursue happiness, but not guarantee us happiness.

I am a little overweight, but I gave up french fries and giant sodas. And I admit I include myself, so my whole point is that modern society is suffering from over indulgences on various fronts, not just food, but in many many ways, which is not very indicative of a society that is so hard up as claimed.

P.S. I didn't buy a salad, so you don't need to laugh.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 06:25 am
okie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
All these "promises" by the candidates are beginning to sound like previous campgaigns; promises not kept.

I think both Obama and Hillary has a big problem with what they are saying they can do as president. Congress doesn't always cooperate.


It is getting worse in terms of politicians, especially Democrats, in terms of what they will promise. I heard Obama promise in one debate that he would end global warming. I thought that was quite a promise, not that I even care if it warms up a little. Frankly, I am tired of hearing all the empty and vacant promises to the hoards of ignorant voters that are too dumb to realize the government is not here for the purpose of taking care of them cradle to grave.

I sat in a fast food place today and witnessed the spectacle of mostly fat and listless appearing people eating way more than they need, and as I pondered the spectacle, I realized this country is fast becoming a country full of coddled, spoiled, overfed, out of shape, undisciplined, and wasteful citizens that want the government to take care of them. This country is in big trouble if we don't wake up to where we are headed and get a big attitude adjustment.



The 'problem' is that all that fatty, horrible food probably only cost like $6. Wheras, if somebody wanted to order something healthy or make something healthy at home, you're looking at double that.

The 'problem' is that the gap between rich and poor is growing, and the 'poor' can only afford $1 cheeseburgers at McD's.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 07:51 am
Rolling Eyes Just wondering; if Barack Obama had lost the last 11 primaries, would HE still be in the race, for nominee? You'd probably say, no, so why is Hillary still hanging around? She's become the Huckabee, for the Democrats. Another question, Does Hillary get to stay in the race, because she is a woman, the wife of an ex-president, because of her race, or all the above?? Rolling Eyes Cool
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:04 am
The obvious (well, obvious to anyone trying to look at it objectively) difference between the two races is that despite her losing so many primaries, her superdelegate projected count and her overall delegate count has remained within about 100 or so of Obama's. A far cry from the drudging Huckaby got in numbers. The simple fact is that she could reasonably still be considered a threat, albeit a considerably weakened one. Unlike Huckaby who would literally need a miracle to win.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:13 am
Diest TKO wrote:
Okie - Guess what? The government is supposed to take care of it's people. It's kind of it's purpose. You call it spoiling because it gives it the particular brand you desire to give it. The truth is that when it comes to the interest of bussiness versus citizens, it'a no-brainer.

T
K
O


Where is it written in the Constitution that "The government is supposed to take care of it's people"?

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that.
Personally, I dont want the govt to take care of me, I want them to leave me alone.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:15 am
snood wrote:
The obvious (well, obvious to anyone trying to look at it objectively) difference between the two races is that despite her losing so many primaries, her superdelegate projected count and her overall delegate count has remained within about 100 or so of Obama's. A far cry from the drudging Huckaby got in numbers. The simple fact is that she could reasonably still be considered a threat, albeit a considerably weakened one. Unlike Huckaby who would literally need a miracle to win.

Snood:
I only posed the question, because Mika Brezenski, posed it herself, that if Barack Obama, had lost, would the press be as kind? That's all. Don't know if I spelled her name right. She's the daughter of Zbigneiwe Brezenski! She was unknown, except for her father. It pays to be related, huh? Well, that said, both candidates, should be leaning on McCain, but for Hillary, Barack, is an easy target, for her! Cool Confused
0 Replies
 
 

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