realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 05:39 pm
So Clinton says:

"Let's have a real campaign. Enough with the speeches and big rallies ..."

Obama has mis-characterized her health care program a bit. As I understand it, everyone will have to buy it but there will be tax credits available to off set that for those with lower income. I readily concede that I don't understand the nuances of the plans.

No more speeches or big rallies?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 05:45 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
No more speeches or big rallies?

So no more repeats of last night for Bill, then, eh? :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 06:45 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Speaking of boneheaded goofs, I hear MSNBC's Matthews just made mince meat of one of Obama's surrogates by asking him to name one of Obama's legislative accomplishments and the poor guy flubbed it up and didn't say a thing.

Hillary used this in the last debate, of course:

    "there are differences between our records and our accomplishments. I have to confess I was somewhat amused the other night when on one of the TV shows, one of Senator Obama's supporters was asked to name one accomplishment of Senator Obama, and he couldn't. So I know that there are comparisons and contrasts to be drawn between us, and it's important that voters get that information."
The poor guy in question was Texas Senator Kirk Watson, and he has put up a very gracious statement that just really makes you feel for him:

Quote:
MSNBC and Me

February 20, 2008

So . . . That really happened.

On Tuesday night, after an important and historic victory in the Wisconsin Presidential Primary by Senator Barack Obama, I appeared on the MSNBC post-election program. "Hardball" host Chris Matthews (who is, it turns out, as ferocious as they say), began grilling me on Senator Obama's legislative record.

And my mind went blank. I expected to be asked about the primary that night, or the big one coming up in Texas on March 4, or just about anything else in the news. When the subject changed so emphatically, I reached for information that millions of my fellow Obama supporters could recite by heart, and I couldn't summon it.

My most unfortunate gaffe is not, in any way, a comment on Senator Obama, his substantial record, or the great opportunity we all share to elect him President of the United States.

Had I not lost my mind, here are the accomplishments I would have mentioned:

  • Senator Obama's fight for universal children's health care in Illinois.
  • His success bringing Republicans and Democrats together (a huge selling point for me in general) on bills such as the one in Illinois requiring police interrogations and confessions to be videotaped.
  • His leadership on ethics reform in Washington (the bill that lobbyists and special interests are complaining about right now has his name on it).
  • His bill to make the federal budget far more transparent and accessible to Americans via the Internet - we could use that openness in Texas.
  • And his vital work with Republicans to lock down nuclear weapons around the world.
Of course, it would have helped to remember all of this last night. I encourage anyone who wants to know more (especially Mr. Matthews) to log onto texas.barackobama.com.

In the meantime, let's not lose focus on what's important in this election. It's not my stunning televised defeat in "Stump the Chump." Thankfully, it has nothing at all to do with me.

What's important is the direction our country is headed. What's important are the priorities, methods, and, yes, accomplishments of those seeking the highest office in the country.

Senator Obama has a vision for this nation, and we would be fortunate to fulfill it. He has the commitment to work with everyone from across the political and demographic spectrum to achieve it. And he has the strength to defend us, our security, and our values against all who will challenge them.

But most of all, he has the record to prove that all of this is possible. It's something no one should forget.

. . . Even though I did.

. . . On national television.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 06:57 pm
sozobe wrote:
Yikes!:

Quote:
Barack Obama's late night rally here was a cross between a mob scene, a pep rally, a rock concert, and a Paris Hilton stakeout.

The Democratic front-runner appeared at the tiny new office of his campaign's Corpus Christi headquarters tonight to fire up the campaign troops in advance of a morning rally tomorrow. Packed far past capacity, they hardly needed firing up. Several people had to be taken by ambulance after fainting from heat while waiting for him to arrive. Staff, and even a few well-meaning members of the press, formed a distribution line for bottled water to keep casualties to a minimum.

The crowd's long wait was rewarded with a speech that clocked in under five minutes, although the adoring crowd didn't much seem to care. But the chaos really began when Obama ventured outside to greet the hoards of supporters who couldn't make it into the steamy former dance hall that housed the speech. A crowd-turned-paraparazzi, brandishing camera phones of all makes and models, mobbed the candidate as he ambled around behind the building, alarmed staff and Secret Servicemen in tow.

Popping flashbulbs were punctuated with hilariously adoring comments from screaming women. (Example: "Ohmigod Barack! You're my new screensaver!") He even gave an impromptu speech to encourage supporters to vote -- twice -- in the March 4th primary.

But the true Bono moment came as Obama reappeared for a brief moment before finally (to the relief of the Service and the press) climbing into the gray Suburban and calling it a night. He was speaking on his cell phone, and as the crowd began to chant and holler at the mere glimpse of the candidate, he held the phone aloft victoriously.

Whoever was listening on the other end might be convinced that Corpus Christi is Obama Country.

Or at least that Obama is a rock star.





[size=7]Some names and identifying details changed. Guess who? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/[/size]


Is this real or a Saturday Night Live sketch? Pure media hype. "Bono moment", "crowd-turned paparazzi", they're feeding this whole rock star/Messiah thing to the public and so many are buying into it on both sides, either following blindly or despising him for it. IT'S THE MEDIA PEOPLE. This is what they do.

Just wait until it's time to tear him down.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:00 pm
soz's quote describing Mr Obama's gig reminded me of the thing they do in Mecca. The Haj I think it is called.

Although there are usually deaths by trampling in those.

Corpus Christi could not possibly be an accidental choice of location.

It's his ears.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:03 pm
I put in the wrong link -- it was to the site and not a permalink, so if you click now it's not the story I mean. Nimh linked to it above, but here 'tis again.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/23/694052.aspx

(Tiny writing at the bottom of my original post: "Some names and identifying details changed. Guess who?")
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:08 pm
nimh wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
nimh wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:


... and regular columnist for the National Review (thats where this piece was from).

Because there is noone as qualified to tell us what remorse or other sentiments liberals are experiencing right now than a NR columnist.


Of course he is. As if I was trying to hide the fact. This is how the print version copies.

In any case it doesn't seem as if Liberals have any problem telling us what conservatives think or feel.

I found it humorous. Perhaps you did not.I'm sure you're not suggesting that this thread should not be polluted with comments from the "other side."

Course not. Just that when it comes to Reading the Hearts and Minds of Liberals Today, the take of an anonymous columnist in the National Review is as much worth as TP.

Or, if you prefer, as much as the nth liberal on the Bush Supporters thread telling you what conservatives really feel, going on nothing but his own opinion and gut feeling. You obviously consider those takes worthless - no reason why the opposite would suddenly be valuable.

But sure, post whatever you want. Just dont blame us for rolling our eyes if it's stuff like this.


I don't know if there is a more affected pose than that which involves rolling of the eyes. I know I have now guaranteed that I will receive a flood of rolling eye emoticons, but at least you didn't use one.

In any case, I'm not blaming you for rolling your eyes - roll away. What I did find amusing though was the notion that you might need to reveal the "true source" of this obviously satirical piece.

I'm sure that your liberal confreres appreciate your shining the light of day on my feeble attempt to use a National Review piece to deceive them. It should improve their sense of ideological security to know that the ever-vigilant nimh is always on the job!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:33 pm
nimh wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
Speaking of boneheaded goofs, I hear MSNBC's Matthews just made mince meat of one of Obama's surrogates by asking him to name one of Obama's legislative accomplishments and the poor guy flubbed it up and didn't say a thing.

Hillary used this in the last debate, of course:

    "there are differences between our records and our accomplishments. I have to confess I was somewhat amused the other night when on one of the TV shows, one of Senator Obama's supporters was asked to name one accomplishment of Senator Obama, and he couldn't. So I know that there are comparisons and contrasts to be drawn between us, and it's important that voters get that information."
The poor guy in question was Texas Senator Kirk Watson, and he has put up a very gracious statement that just really makes you feel for him:

Quote:
MSNBC and Me

February 20, 2008

So . . . That really happened.

On Tuesday night, after an important and historic victory in the Wisconsin Presidential Primary by Senator Barack Obama, I appeared on the MSNBC post-election program. "Hardball" host Chris Matthews (who is, it turns out, as ferocious as they say), began grilling me on Senator Obama's legislative record.

And my mind went blank. I expected to be asked about the primary that night, or the big one coming up in Texas on March 4, or just about anything else in the news. When the subject changed so emphatically, I reached for information that millions of my fellow Obama supporters could recite by heart, and I couldn't summon it.

My most unfortunate gaffe is not, in any way, a comment on Senator Obama, his substantial record, or the great opportunity we all share to elect him President of the United States.

Had I not lost my mind, here are the accomplishments I would have mentioned:

  • Senator Obama's fight for universal children's health care in Illinois.
  • His success bringing Republicans and Democrats together (a huge selling point for me in general) on bills such as the one in Illinois requiring police interrogations and confessions to be videotaped.
  • His leadership on ethics reform in Washington (the bill that lobbyists and special interests are complaining about right now has his name on it).
  • His bill to make the federal budget far more transparent and accessible to Americans via the Internet - we could use that openness in Texas.
  • And his vital work with Republicans to lock down nuclear weapons around the world.
Of course, it would have helped to remember all of this last night. I encourage anyone who wants to know more (especially Mr. Matthews) to log onto texas.barackobama.com.

In the meantime, let's not lose focus on what's important in this election. It's not my stunning televised defeat in "Stump the Chump." Thankfully, it has nothing at all to do with me.

What's important is the direction our country is headed. What's important are the priorities, methods, and, yes, accomplishments of those seeking the highest office in the country.

Senator Obama has a vision for this nation, and we would be fortunate to fulfill it. He has the commitment to work with everyone from across the political and demographic spectrum to achieve it. And he has the strength to defend us, our security, and our values against all who will challenge them.

But most of all, he has the record to prove that all of this is possible. It's something no one should forget.

. . . Even though I did.

. . . On national television.


A nice touch by Senator Watson, but of course the damage has already been done.

Does anyone really think, though, that Sen. Watson had all of these bullet-points at the forefront of his brain, but was simply stupefied by the presence of Chris Matthews?

It is amazing how quickly the Obama machine can get out their talking points though.

Let's look at the talking points:

  • Senator Obama's fight for universal children's health care in Illinois.
  • His success bringing Republicans and Democrats together (a huge selling point for me in general) on bills such as the one in Illinois requiring police interrogations and confessions to be videotaped.
  • His leadership on ethics reform in Washington (the bill that lobbyists and special interests are complaining about right now has his name on it).
  • His bill to make the federal budget far more transparent and accessible to Americans via the Internet - we could use that openness in Texas.
  • And his vital work with Republicans to lock down nuclear weapons around the world.


This is about as vapid a list of accomplishments a spin machine might muster.

"His fight for..."

Fighting for something is not an accomplishment.

"His success in bringing Republicans and Democrats together on bills 'such as the one...'"

OK, here is, arguably, an accomplishment, but the use of "such as the one" is laughable. This was the one and only. If there were more, Sen Watson would have cited them.

"His leadership on..."

Not his "leadership in bringing to law..." No, his leadership in coming up with a bill with his name on it. Check the congressional record. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of bill that never had a chance of becoming a law, but carry someone's name so they can go hom and talk about the "Obama Bill."

His bill to make the the federal budget transparent on the internet... Again a bill, not a law, and if it becomes a law it will transform American society how?

"His vital work..."

Not even a bill here.

This is a list of accomplishments? No wonder Watson was a deer in the headlights when Matthews asked him the question. At least he didn't offer the sort of idiotic responses his public supporters fall prey to when asked the same question: "He reformed congress," "He helped old people," "He's the first black candidate to have a chance at winning the presidency."

While I don't agree with Obama supporters when they tell us that his very inexperience, his ability to inspire, and his desire to change politics as we know it is reason to vote for him, at least they are intellectually consistent when they limit their rationale to such virtues.

When they try to convince us that he actually does have some legislative heft, they make fools of themselves and the basis of their support for the man.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:38 pm
Eye rolling is good for the eyeballs. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:53 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Eye rolling is good for the eyeballs. Rolling Eyes


I knew it!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 08:29 pm
nimh wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Another Clinton surrogate has gone on the attack against Obama.
But instead of just attacking Obama, he has attacked much of the dem party.
Quote:
"The Barack show is playing to rave reviews sold out at college campus after college campus. [..] Give me a break! I've got news for all the latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies crowding in to hear him speak. This guy won't last a round against the Republican attack machine. He's a poet, not a fighter!"

Yeah, because nothing says "latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies" like having the endorsement and boots on the ground of the Teamsters union.

TNR commenter ratnerstar was funny:

    Is "latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies" really a discrete demographic entity? Trust fund babies may drink lattes, but they drive SUVs. Birkenstock wearers probably drive Priuses (Priusi?), but they only drink herbal tea with organic raw milk.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 08:36 pm
spendius wrote:
soz's quote describing Mr Obama's gig reminded me of the thing they do in Mecca. The Haj I think it is called. [..]

It's his ears.

Spendi, the article wasnt about Obama.. it was about Bill Clinton. Soz was being sarcastic (or ironic, or whatever you'd call it).

It was funny, too... :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 08:46 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In any case, I'm not blaming you for rolling your eyes - roll away. What I did find amusing though was the notion that you might need to reveal the "true source" of this obviously satirical piece.

I'm sure that your liberal confreres appreciate your shining the light of day on my feeble attempt to use a National Review piece to deceive them. It should improve their sense of ideological security to know that the ever-vigilant nimh is always on the job!

Wow, that must be the most pompous post describing another poster as pompous that I've seen this month. An ironic affect?

Meanwhile, of course, my point wasnt to "shine the light of day" on your copy/paste in order to "reveal its true source", or anything like that. It was just to observe what I did: that there are few people less qualified to talk of the inner feelings of liberals than an anonymous National Review columnist. Which basically makes the whole column just so much hot air.

If you know a way in which I could have said that without pointing out that the copy/paste was from the National Review, tell me.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 08:56 pm
nimh wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In any case, I'm not blaming you for rolling your eyes - roll away. What I did find amusing though was the notion that you might need to reveal the "true source" of this obviously satirical piece.

I'm sure that your liberal confreres appreciate your shining the light of day on my feeble attempt to use a National Review piece to deceive them. It should improve their sense of ideological security to know that the ever-vigilant nimh is always on the job!

Wow, that must be the most pompous post describing another poster as pompous that I've seen this month. An ironic affect?

Meanwhile, of course, my point wasnt to "shine the light of day" on your copy/paste in order to "reveal its true source", or anything like that. It was just to observe what I did: that there are few people less qualified to talk of the inner feelings of liberals than an anonymous National Review columnist. Which basically makes the whole column just so much hot air.

If you know a way in which I could have said that without pointing out that the copy/paste was from the National Review, tell me.


Well nimh says it's pompus and so it must be.

It is what is is.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 09:01 pm
Finn dAbuzz shudda just wrote:
Quote:
Damn, no matter how much I poke, I just can't get these Democrats to get into another food fight with each other. What will it take to create a wedge between these people that I can exploit?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 09:16 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Well nimh says it's pompus and so it must be.

Uh no - I say it's pompous, which means that I think it's pompous. Nothing beyond that.

Sometimes there really is nothing there, Finn, no matter how hard you try :wink:
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 09:31 pm
blatham wrote:
finn wrote:
Quote:
Be honest blatham, you are not suggesting that only I am batty, your are clearly suggesting that anyone who was put off by Mrs Obama's comments is batty - and actually, far worse
.

"Far worse" is your addition. "Batty, as regards this matter," was what I said.

Perhaps you perceive an underlying implication that I think being batty about certain sorts of things (say, the way some japanese are batty about those saucer-eyed anime characters) isn't of much significance to the tenor and well-being of a society, but that being batty about other sorts of things might be rather more significant, well, then you'd be right.


Of course.

Being "batty" about the utterances of the Democratic nominee for the presidency"s wife is far more significant that being "batty" about anime characters.

Who, knowing you blatham, would ever think otherwise?

Dodge away if you will, but anyone who knows you knows that you believe someone who considers Mrs Obama's comments in their evaluation of the presidential aspirations of her husband is far more sinister than "batty."

So you believe this sort of shite. God bless you for your shiteology. Obviously you are not going to convince an apostate like myself otherwise, but try and remain true to your positions --- if you can.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 09:43 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Finn dAbuzz shudda just wrote:
Quote:
Damn, no matter how much I poke, I just can't get these Democrats to get into another food fight with each other. What will it take to create a wedge between these people that I can exploit?


Sorry butterfly but you are already engaged in your intra-party food fight.

You threw quite a large lump of lunchmeat with your "Hey You Guys Who Want to Praise Hillary While Leaving Us Alone On The Obama Thread" thread. Nice try there.

Bipo has no use for me and hardly needs me to tell you Obamaniacs that you are cultists. Same with Miller, Lola and BBB.

I'm trying hard not to be an SOB when faced with all of this vacuous shite about new politics, the audacity of hope, and all the other messianic references.

Believe it or not, I do appreciate why you might find Obama appealing, and there is some part of me that would love to believe that he is the real deal, but he is not. He is a politician and has been one for the last 11 years. He is not America's Lech Walensa. Whatever virtues or vices a "politican" may have, he has them and no more and no less than Hillary Clinton or John McCain.

Realism or cynicism - take your pick, but I will bet my life that Obama is not the Savior you and other thralls believe him to be.

Your arguments that you are not being naive about him are as sound as a two dollar bill. He has no substance. This is without argument. If you don't care about substance, fine, but don't try and suggest he has it.

I don't need to invade your thread to sow discontent among Democrats about Obama. If I never posted here there would be plenty of reasonable people asking why Obama?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 09:46 pm
nimh wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Well nimh says it's pompus and so it must be.

Uh no - I say it's pompous, which means that I think it's pompous. Nothing beyond that.

Sometimes there really is nothing there, Finn, no matter how hard you try :wink:


Yes, and nimh doesn't believe himself to be a member of the A2K Aesir. Cool
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:02 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Yes, and nimh doesn't believe himself to be a member of the A2K Aesir. Cool

Hell, I dont even know what Aesir means.
0 Replies
 
 

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