Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:14 pm
snood wrote:
Quote:
While I have never and would never apologize for slavery, having never participated; that doesn't mean I'm insensitive to the plight of blacks since. Were I 50/50 split over who to vote for; common decency would send me to the black man's corner. I strongly suspect there are at least as many people who'd like to prove they're not racist as there are racists in this country. Obviously, the more educated will likely lean in this direction easier, but I don't think it's a liberal phenomenon at all.



Quote:
Skin color has nothing to do with it. I don't get the 50/50 split thing.


You so don't.


The 50/50 split is a contruct that allows Bill to establish his sensitivity to the historical plight of blacks, and prove he is not a racist. Such a choice will never actually present itself to anyone, because so even a political contest will never occur.

In any case even within the context of the construct, choosing the white candidate over the perfectly matched black candidate is not proof of racism.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:29 pm
But as a matter of fact, racism is the reality in US elections.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 01:58 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
In any case even within the context of the construct, choosing the white candidate over the perfectly matched black candidate is not proof of racism.
True, it is not. But seriously Finn, would you do otherwise? I can honestly say that I couldn't do the same in a 50/50 situation between a man and woman for fear that maternal instinct could interfere with the hardest of all decisions... mostly because of other's instincts and how they may view the probability... but not entirely. Embarrassed

Aside: C.I.--> East coast is where you would have seen racism if you were going to. I was amused to find the Nicaraguans and/or Panamanians were blamed for most of the crime. I think shades of racism must exist everywhere... though Costa Rica is, hands down, my favorite place so far.

As coincidence will have it; my landlords at my new restaurant are at least as taken in by the Tico's as I… and have already bought some beachfront near Jaco. They've recently returned, and re-uped my personal coffee supply, but I don't think I'll stay sane much longer without returning myself. Everyone should meet a general population who's generally satisfied with their lot in life. Perhaps you've met another… I haven't.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 02:28 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
But as a matter of fact, racism is the reality in US elections.

Just curious: When your brother ran for local office (or was it state office?), how much of a role did his Asian race play for his campaign and his party's nomination? How many votes do you think he lost in the election because of non-Asian racists?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 03:48 am
And how many votes do you think he gained because of his Asian race.

But essentially "race" is a state of mind. Appearence is only a rough guide when the state of mind is not apparent.
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blatham
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 05:15 am
finn said
Quote:
Tiger Woods has had two parents of color and yet one seems to play a greater role in how the external world sees him.
[/color]

If by "the external world" you mean the rest of the US outside your door, sure. It is decidedly not true elsewhere, most acutely in Asian coverage.

Not tough to understand why - in either case.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 05:40 am
bill wrote
Quote:
Everyone should meet a general population who's generally satisfied with their lot in life.


Now isn't that an interesting phenomenon? And what might be the positive imagined consequences of "everyone (of us, you mean) meeting" such a population? This ain't the thread for the discussion but just thought I'd tell you I'm pleased as punch those notions are rattling around under the cheddar.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 05:49 am
spendius wrote:


But essentially "race" is a state of mind. Appearence is only a rough guide when the state of mind is not apparent.


spendi
Well, "race" is not the same category of thing as, say, "happiness". Otherwise, sure.

On your earlier post, I assumed you had in mind some vision of Maggie with her heel crushing Gordon's balls?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 05:57 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Tiger Woods has had two parents of color and yet one seems to play a greater role in how the external world sees him.

Woods is an excellent example of the phenomena because there is every reason for African-Americans and Asian-Americans to "claim" him and no possible way for even the most racist of White-Americans to classify him as one race or the other for the sinister purpose of defaming either of them.


Not knowing a heck of a lot about the golf world, just from what I have read in the media, I might conclude that Tiger Woods is one of the best golfers around today.

Would he have gotten the same media play were he white? Is he being singled out, not because of his great playing, but because he is an anomaly?

Is it the phenomenon as Finn mentions, that there are groups that want to "claim" him? Is he being perceived as an unusually gifted golfer, or a great black golfer? In other words, is he being lauded as Tiger Woods, the individual, or Tiger Woods, the black man who made it big in the world of golf?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:04 am
Tiger Woods is pretty widely recognized as the best golfer of the last decade, by far. There is only a very small group of two or three golfers who regularly challenge him. He's renowned for his work ethic, and his talent. Not saying you're saying this, but just as some perspective - to say Tiger Wodds is a famous golfer because of his ethnicity would be like to say Michael Jordan got his fame because he is black. His presence in the sport has inspired a lot more blacks to get into golf, but that has been just a side benefit.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:10 am
When you look at the sports magazines and the sport pages of (international) papers - you'll hardly (if at all) find mentioned Wood's skin colour (outside the USA 'race' isn't used that much, I think, re humans).
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:13 am
Snood- I hear you. I think though that there is one difference between Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan. There have been many great black basketball players. Michael Jordan happens to be one of the best. In the basketball world, being black and also being a great player is not that unusual.

Being a black person who is a professional golfer is not too common. Being a black person who is one of the finest professional golfers in the world is exceedingly rare.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:42 am
No argument there.

I'd hope it isn't as rare in the future. but when I look around, I think there were more blacks on the PGA tour in '75 than there are today. And the number of those starting to play in college isn't growing much either, from my quick look at stats.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:49 am
Snood- I think that you will find this interesting. I "Googled" this article, which gives a possible explanation of why there are so few pro golfers who are black:


http://www.isteve.com/Golf_Decline_of_the_Black_Golf_Pro.htm
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:01 am
Great find, phoenix.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:06 am
My gvt 'puter blocks that site - what'd it say, if you'd be so kind?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:08 am
Quote:
The Decline of the Black Golf Pro

by Steve Sailer

UPI, April 12, 2003


The controversy over the male-only membership policy of the Augusta National Golf Club, host of this week's Masters Tournament, is often seen as a replay of the disputes over the racial integration of golf, a past in which Augusta National also played a prominent role. Yet, following the civil rights triumphs, the history of blacks in golf has followed a trajectory that few foresaw.

At least one man did predict the future. At the end of the 1960s, Joe Dey, the first commissioner of the Professional Golfers' Association Tour, forecast that the number of black golf pros would enter a long-term decline, saying: "By the turn of the century, there may not be one black playing the Tour."

Although Tiger Woods is now in his 8th season as the hyper-star of the PGA Tour, Dey turned out to be more nearly correct than all those pundits who predicted that with Woods as a role model, numerous black stars would quickly emerge.

Woods is now the only black on the Tour (and he's twice as Asian as he is black). That's fewer blacks than at any time since the PGA revoked its "Caucasian-only" policy in 1961. There are a few young blacks in the pipeline playing the minor league tours, but there are more blacks on the Champions Tour for over-50 golfers.

Even less noticed has been the collapse in the number of black caddies on the Tour at a time when the rewards of club-carrying have shot upwards. Several dozen Tour caddies make more than $100,000 annually, and New Zealander Steve Williams has even started his own charitable foundation using some of the several million dollars he has earned toting Woods' bag. Yet, over the past couple of decades, the proportion of black caddies has dropped from about half to nearly negligible.

The two trends are intertwined. The second article in this series will discuss the caddie trend and what it implies about the type of jobs that modern blacks hold, a topic that is often discussed in private but seldom in the press.

Between 1964 and 1986, five black pros (Pete Brown, Charlie Sifford, Lee Elder, Calvin Peete and Jim Thorpe) won a total of 23 PGA tournaments. But in the 17 years since, no black other than Woods has won. (While certainly proud of his black heritage, Woods also consistently identifies himself as Thai, and sometimes he points out his white, American Indian and Chinese ancestry as well.)

In contrast to Woods, a celebrated middle-class prodigy who was putting around on national TV with Bob Hope and Jimmy Stewart when he was 3, the black pioneers had to scramble. The life story of each would make a movie that is both inspiring and entertaining.

Sifford endured death threats when he became the first black to play a Southern event in 1961 and finally broke through to win for the first time in 1967 at the late age of 45.

While his white peers were on the PGA tour in the 1950s, Elder, who in 1975 became the first black to play in the Masters, made a living as the sidekick to the legendary hustler Titanic Thompson. The great gambler would seal big money bets by exclaiming: "Heck, I'll play any pair of you with just my chauffeur as my partner." Elder, dressed in livery and innocently polishing the car, would express humble surprise at being invited to play, then proceed to relieve the astonished local hotshots of their folding money.

Besides Woods, the only American minority group members in the top 125 money-winners last year were Notah Begay III, a Navajo Indian, and three Spanish-surnamed players: Robert Gamez, Pat Perez and David Berganio, Jr.

No American-born Latino, however, has come close in recent years to matching the record of the great Lee Trevino, a scrappy driving range pro and trick shot hustler who stunned the golf world by winning the 1968 U.S. Open. Trevino went on to earn 28 more titles through 1984. Another Mexican-American champion, Nancy Lopez, the most popular woman golfer ever, recently retired after a tremendous Ladies Professional Golf Association career that began in 1979 when she won five tournaments in a row.

The darkest-skinned player on the Tour today is not black. He's Vijay Singh, who trailed only Woods and Phil Mickelson on last year's money list. Singh was born in Fiji and is of Asian Indian descent.

Golf, of course, is an expensive game, but the number of blacks who play for fun is not insignificant. Blacks, who number one of every eight Americans, comprise about one of every 30 amateur golfers. They make up a slightly higher fraction of male players, since black women golfers are quite rare. (In contrast, for unknown reasons, women make up a high proportion of Asian-American golfers). Golf is wildly popular among retired black basketball, football and baseball stars.

So, based on pure percentages, one would expect about three or four blacks in the Tour's top 125 money winners. Why the shortfall? The problem appears to be that few blacks take up the game until they are fully grown. In contrast, champions typically start playing by the time they are 12. Golf experts often remarked with wonder that Greg Norman became a superstar even though he hadn't tried golf until he was 16.

Michael Jordan, America's most celebrated amateur golf fanatic, was introduced to the sport at the University of North Carolina by his fellow Tarheel Davis Love III. Jordan, one of the world's most intense competitors, has said he'd like to play the Champions Tour when he turns 50. It's never prudent to bet against Jordan, but he would need to improve dramatically over the next decade. In contrast, Love, who won the big TPC tournament in March, learned the game as a small child from his father, a famous teaching pro.

There appear to be two main reasons young blacks from well-to-do families don't play much golf.

First, since the 1960s African-American youths have narrowed their sports interests. Black youth culture has increasingly fixated on football and, especially, basketball, at the expense of other sports, even ones where black individuals continue to excel, such as track and baseball. Country club sports like golf and tennis are even less part of the hip-hop image.

Just as in golf, blacks mostly haven't followed up on pioneering successes in tennis. Althea Gibson won Wimbledon back in 1957 (and, impressively, went on to be the first and still only black tournament winner in the history of the LPGA). Arthur Ashe captured the U.S. Open in 1968. Yet, the only blacks to win a major championship singles title in the past 28 years have been the Williams sisters.

And, like Tiger, Venus and Serena mighty be the exceptions that prove the rule. Even though they were raised at first in Compton, Calif., the home of West Coast gangsta rap, their ambitious father kept them so isolated from black pop culture that they grew up preferring the "alternative rock" music that their white friends at tennis camps liked.

Second, today's PGA Tour stars generally grew up in families who belonged to private country clubs in the Sunbelt, where they could play year-round. While fixed-price country club memberships typically work out to be quite expensive on a cost-per-round basis for the once-a-week businessman player, they can be a good deal for the businessman if he has a child who is a passionate junior golfer who might play as many as 54 holes per day over summer vacation.

Very few black families, though, are members of country clubs. Even high-income blacks tend to have much lower levels of both inherited and earned wealth. Further, there is no private golf club in the United States with a primarily black membership, so African-Americans who prefer to socialize with their own race have no golf clubs to call their own. (In 1946, a black man named Bill Powell, who was tired of being discriminated against when he wanted to play golf, designed and built the Clearview Golf Club in East Canton, Ohio, but he made it a public course open to all.)

Finally, racial discrimination was almost monolithic at country clubs up through 1990. That year, the PGA Championship was embarrassed when the founder of its host, the Shoal Creek Country Club in Alabama, admitted to a reporter that blacks could not become members. Such exclusion was hardly unique to the South.

A Chicago Tribune survey in the early 1990s found that all the clubs in the Chicagoland area together boasted less than dozen black members. After that, the tournament organizing bodies imposed a racial quota. Today, clubs that want to host a prestigious pro tournament must have at least one black member.

The situation is better for affluent black golfers today. For example, several black business executives are now members of Augusta National, a club so exclusive that it rebuffed the application of world's richest man -- Bill Gates -- for several years before finally admitting him. Not surprisingly, however, blacks and country clubs remain rather wary of each other.

So, most black men who golf today play at public courses. For example, many blacks in the entertainment industry, such as comedian Cedric the Entertainer, flock to Robinson Ranch north of Los Angeles, where greens fees run as high as $125 per round. This kind of "country club for a day" layout offers fine golf and service without all the hassles of applying for membership.

One disadvantage, though, is that daily-fee courses aren't as good grooming grounds for the next generation as country clubs. Few families of any race want to pay a la carte to have their sons or daughters play 10 or 12 rounds a week all summer long.

Yet, black golfers were once more abundant on the Tour, and that was during a time when racial barriers were much higher than today. The second part of this series will cover the economic and psychological reasons behind the breakdown of the main route that blacks once followed to golf excellence: starting out as caddies for white golfers.




0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:14 am
Thanks a million, Phoenix. Fascinatin' stuff.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:15 am
snood

Any blocking of Air America?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 07:32 am
blatham wrote:
snood

Any blocking of Air America?


One would think so, but I can get Al Franken on streaming radio anytime. There is little rhyme or reason I can fathom to the parameters they use for what's acceptable and not.
0 Replies
 
 

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