Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 05:08 pm
Those two endorsements should wipe Bill's apology tour off the front pages too.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 05:10 pm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=23955


Quote:
California First Lady Maria Shriver is the surprise guest at the Oprah Winfrey/Caroline Kennedy/Michelle Obama rally at UCLA -- and she's come out for Barack Obama. She just took the stage to thunderous applause, saying, ''I'm standing here not because I'm cousins with her,'' she said, looking at her cousin, Caroline. ''Or because I'm friends with her,'' she said, looking at Oprah.

''I believe that elections are a lot like love, they're made up of moments...and the more I thought about it, the more I thought that this election is about a moment.''

''This is not just about the Democratic party..this is also about California,'' she said.

''If Barack Obama was a state, he'd be California.''

Cheers all around. Her husband, Arnold Schwarzenegger, endorsed John McCain last week. Should be interesting around the household this week.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 05:14 pm
Schwartenegger fairly recently came out for both McCain and Obama, just before he officially endorsed McCain. I doubt Maria's endorsement is a surprise and figure it is understood by him.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 05:19 pm
Yep, that's what I said a few posts ago. I agree. His statement will help to soften the blow to him a bit.

Personally, I think it makes them all that more admirable that they each have separate identities.

Those Kennedy women have a lot of kick in them!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 06:11 pm
"Mommy, if you think you can help, then go."

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/the_rally_where_obama_won_arno.html

Yeah, this will get some media attention...
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 06:21 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31

Quote:
Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Sun Feb 3, 11:40 AM ET



Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

...
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 06:27 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31

Quote:
Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Sun Feb 3, 11:40 AM ET



Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

...



Don't know why this is news....this of course was always one of the options to ensure compliance. The government garnishes wages all the time.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 06:29 pm
Ladies who "might be willing to garnish" the workers are generally considered to be teasers in my neck of the woods.

Some men like that sort of thing but I'm not one of them. I might play around with the idea if there was an abundance of time.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 06:38 pm
maporsche wrote:
Don't know why this is news....this of course was always one of the options to ensure compliance. The government garnishes wages all the time.



This part of the article probably provides a clue as to why it is news:

Quote:
Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:10 pm
Butrflynet wrote:

Quote:
Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said


What does "has not always specified" mean? Has she sometimes specified? Does she sometimes say "garnishment"? Does she sometimes say "fines"?

I know, how about every time she says "garnish wages" we'll write a news story with the caveat "she has not always specified".
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:15 pm
You asked why it was news. I quoted the part of the article that answered that.

You'll have to address the author of the article with your disagreement over whether it was news worthy.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:34 pm
maporsche wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:

Quote:
Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said


What does "has not always specified" mean? Has she sometimes specified? Does she sometimes say "garnishment"? Does she sometimes say "fines"?

I know, how about every time she says "garnish wages" we'll write a news story with the caveat "she has not always specified".


Well, no I could address it to you too. You obviously thought it was newsworthy enough to make a new posting in the Obama forum. You must have thought that this was bad for Clinton, thereby good for Obama. I'm curious what your thoughts are in regards to the article.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:37 pm
Messed up who I was quoting, but you know what I meant.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:43 pm
Has she ever actually said that garnishing wages was an option? As I recall, that's something the Edwards plan specified but hers didn't. I don't remember her ever saying how she would enforce her mandate. So in that sense, if she's saying now that garnishing wages is an option and that's not something evident in her plan, then that is news.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:46 pm
I posted it because it addresses some of the very points that were in contention here in the discussion of the two health plans -- enforcement and affordibility.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:50 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Has she ever actually said that garnishing wages was an option? As I recall, that's something the Edwards plan specified but hers didn't. I don't remember her ever saying how she would enforce her mandate. So in that sense, if she's saying now that garnishing wages is an option and that's not something evident in her plan, then that is news.


December 1st

Quote:
Democratic Presidential Candidate Clinton Would Consider Garnishing Wages To Enforce Health Insurance Mandate, Advisers Say

Policy advisers for Clinton on Saturday said that she would consider a proposal to garnish the wages of some U.S. residents who can afford health insurance but do not obtain coverage, the Long Island Newsday reports. Under her health care proposal, Clinton would require all residents to obtain health insurance, with subsidized and no-cost coverage provided to those who qualify. Neera Tanden, a policy adviser for Clinton, in a conference call with reporters said that Clinton would consider a proposal to have employers "automatically enroll employees" in health insurance and withhold "parts of their salaries to pay for it." According to Tanden, "these are reasonable steps to enforce a mandate" (Thrush, Long Island Newsday, 12/1).
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:52 pm
I would fight against this plan.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:58 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
You should have read the answer to the next FAQ.

Quote:
Q2. Why should I be interested in the advance EITC?

A2. You can choose to get part of the credit in your paycheck, if

you are working;
you expect your adjusted gross income (AGI) and earned income will fall within the income limits for the year;
you expect to have at least one qualifying child; amd
you expect to qualify for the EITC.
Your employer will put a part of the EITC in your paychecks but there is a maximum amount that can be paid during the year.

Note: You may be able to claim a larger credit when you file your tax return because your employer can only pay a part of the credit to you in your paycheck. Also, you may be able to claim a larger credit if you have more than one qualifying child. But you must file your tax return to claim any additional credit.


To get the advanced payment, you have to be working, and have a qualifying child plus qualify yourself. You only get part of the credit as an advance. There aren't many parents that can do all that and still bring up a kid properly, especialy single parents. You have to wait for the tax return to get the remainder. If you don't have a qualifying child, you don't get the advance payment. You have to wait for the refund once a year and hope prices don't go up.


This exchange provides a good example of the mindset so often found in liberals that just exasperates the heck out of conservatives like me.

Mr Liberal: "Poor people are paying (taxes) through the nose!"

Mr Conservative: "Did you know that low income wage earners are refunded most if not all of the taxes they pay?"

Ms Liberal: "Nice but not good enough. These people are so poor, they can't afford to wait for their refunds"

Mr Conservative: "That's why there is EITC that refunds the lowest wage earners even more than they pay in taxes and which can be advanced to them in their weekly paychecks."

Ms Liberal: "Not good enough. The only people who can qualify for the advances are those who can expect to qualify for the Refund Plus program (EITC), expect to have at least one child, and actually have a job."

Let's examine why this set of requirements are unfair and inadequate:

1) You can only get an advance of the refund that will exceed what you are paying in taxes if you are working. Just think of how unfair that requirement really is. In order to get an advance on a refund that equals more money than you will be paying in taxes, you actually have to have a job that requires you to pay taxes in the first place! Unbelievable!

2) You only get the advance if you expect to qualify for it! What the hell is that all about? Just give them the advance if they ask for it. If it turns out someone doesn't qualify we can be sure they'll give the money back to the IRS.

3) They have to expect to have at least one child! What about all the poor people without children? They have to wait for their refunds! How typical of the "Let them eat cake" rich to actually expect these singles or couple without children to manage their money. They're poor people, they can't be expected to defer non-essential purchases until after they receive the refund!

4) You missed one of the unjust regulations. Your employer can only advance you part of the credit you expect to receive! Again, the government is discriminating against the poor by having some small holdback to assure that the total of advances does not exceed the credit to which the person is entitled. We can trust these people to pay any overage back to the government. It is insulting to suggest otherwise.

Quote:
There aren't many parents that can do all that and still bring up a kid properly, especialy single parents.


All that?

Since they already have a kid, they've met that requirement. You qualify yourself by having a job that pays less than an established amount. That doesn't require an extra-effort on the part of anyone. The remaining requirement is have a job - this is too much to expect of parents (including single ones)?

EITC is not welfare. It is a tax program to assist folks who are working in low paying jobs. It only follows that if you don't have a job, you don't qualify for this program. There are other relief programs for folks who do not have jobs and in keeping with the majority of Americans wishes, these programs have been reformed to create incentives for people to go to work.

Maybe the government should just send everyone a check for $50,000 on January 1 each year. It can be funded with the taxes taken from people who want to work. Heck the mere fact that they want to work evidences an advantage over the rest of their fellow Americans. Whatever a family doesn't need can be refunded the government every December 31st. With that money the government can fund the military.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 07:59 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I would fight against this plan.


Glad to hear it Cyclops. The status quo is much better.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Sun 3 Feb, 2008 08:01 pm
maporsche wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I would fight against this plan.


Glad to hear it Cyclops. The status quo is much better.


I don't think it's fair to force people to pay for something for which there is no guarantee of the costs.

Let me ask you a question: how is it determined who is rich enough to afford to pay, and who receives subsidies?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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