Obama '08?

Too true. But he's doing fine, he just has to avoid a major f-up.

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One of the things that makes him bad at this is that he's struggling to make sure that everything he says is accurate, so he stumbles around looking for the right words to avoid a gotcha.

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Finally he hits 70/80, talking about Iraq. "I dont just want to end the war, I want to end the mindstate that led to the war" ends a long good run. Describing getting out of Iraq as part of an agenda for protecting American interests and national seucirty - the longer we throw money into Iraq, the longer we're losing capacity to pay attention to AFghanistan, Pakistan - China too, in the long run.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Too true. But he's doing fine, he just has to avoid a major f-up.

I don't agree.

He doesn't have such a lead on Clinton (if any at all) that he only needs to avoid screwing up.

This is the first time the two of them are alone together on the stage. Someone is going to win.

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Wolf Blitzer is pathetic.. "Senator Clinton, that was a clear swipe at you" please bite lemme goad and bait the two of you some more please please please bite.

Hillary masterful in putting him in place using nothing but relaxed female/mothers' charm. "Really?" <mock disappointment> "No, we're having a wonderful time here, arent we?" Smiling.

Her deflection arguably benefited Obama too, but he still looks awkward being edged into the corner of haplessly playing along.

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Is it just me, or does Clinton get more time to speak and more questions
as Obama?

Hillary is slick, she knows how to BS her way into everything. Clearly,
Obama has so much more integrity.

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Is this a real problem for Obama, or is it my imagination, but Obama seems to most of the time angle toward Clinton and watch her as if he is part of the audience, while Clinton stays more faced toward the audience. His angle is a bit toward her. Am I accurate, does this matter, and is this an appearance error on his part?

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If you like policy wonks, you have to appreciate Hillary.

She knows the subject matter better than Obama - or at least she appears to, which from a debate standpoint is the same thing.

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It's true he doesn't have a lead, but he also can't really knock these debates out of the park. He needs to avoid a major screw up in the debate, and the rest is up to his amazing ground game. His victories have all been won on the ground not on the stage. So as long as this debate doesn't kill him, his grass roots campaigning can get him the delegates he needs.

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Yes, it looks that way, as the CNN reporters are to the right of Hillary.

They should have been placed before them which would have made
the camera angle a lot more favorable for Obama. CNN is bias, clearly!

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CalamityJane wrote:

Is it just me, or does Clinton get more time to speak and more questions
as Obama?

Hillary is slick, she knows how to BS her way into everything. Clearly,
Obama has so much more integrity.

It's just you.

Clinton supporters are likely to think Obama is getting more time.

Why do you think it's clear that Obama has more integrity?

I happen to agree, in general, but I've seen nothing to suggest it in this debate.

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I hate myself for paying so much attention to body language and image and such superficial stuff, but I do.. Obama seems tense, almost surly, especially when listening to Hillary. She is vivid, confident and relaxed.

Why wont Blitzer just let Obama respond? Without immediately throwing a new question

"I want to bring our troops home safely and honorably" -- score -- "BUT.." Ehm, stop cutting your own succes lines off with a "but" that sounds like you're going to double back on what you just said.

"We set the bar so low its buried in the sand now" (on crediting the surge with reduction of violence) - score! (also in that pesky line..)

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okie wrote:

Is this a real problem for Obama, or is it my imagination, but Obama seems to most of the time angle toward Clinton and watch her as if he is part of the audience, while Clinton stays more faced toward the audience. His angle is a bit toward her. Am I accurate, does this matter, and is this an appearance error on his part?

Yes! Thats been bugging me since I started watching too.. I kept secondguessing myself trying to figure out if it really looked like that or it was just me.

I think its because of how theyre seated - the moderators to one side of Hillary, Obama on the other, she can basically look ahead while he has to angle towards her to speak to the moderators.

But yeah it's bugging.

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The truth of the matter, of course, is that no one actually watches these debates other then a bunch of political junkies (like us) and the media.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Why do you think it's clear that Obama has more integrity?

I happen to agree, in general, but I've seen nothing to suggest it in this debate.

Obama can back up what he's putting out. Hillary uses great rhetoric
and has learned to use body language and rhetoric to persuade. Obama
is not as prolific (yet) in public. His heart is on his sleeves, and that makes
him much more honest - in my book.

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Obama is already campaigning against McCain. Nice to see him looking forward.

Cycloptichorn

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CalamityJane wrote:

Yes, it looks that way, as the CNN reporters are to the right of Hillary.

They should have been placed before them which would have made
the camera angle a lot more favorable for Obama. CNN is bias, clearly!

Another observation, in my picture, Clinton is framed directly in the center of the panels with CNN written on them most of the time, while Obama is not, he is sort of off center and appears to be a side object next to the central object, which is Clinton. Does anyone doubt the network does not know this when the stage and cameras are set up?

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nimh wrote:

I hate myself for paying so much attention to body language and image and such superficial stuff, but I do.. Obama seems tense, almost surly, especially when listening to Hillary. She is vivid, confident and relaxed.

I thinks that's the way a whole lot of people are seeing it.

Body language and demeanor is not superficial.

It plays a very large part in how we communicate with one another.

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okie wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
Yes, it looks that way, as the CNN reporters are to the right of Hillary.

They should have been placed before them which would have made
the camera angle a lot more favorable for Obama. CNN is bias, clearly!

Another observation, in my picture, Clinton is framed directly in the center of the panels with CNN written on them most of the time, while Obama is not, he is sort of off center and appears to be a side object next to the central object. Does anyone doubt the network does not know this when the stage and cameras are set up?

McCain had a giant 'A' behind his head from Air Force one behind them. Made him look like he had a big pointy head.

Cycloptichorn

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CalamityJane wrote:

CNN is bias, clearly!

Well thats one of the first times Ive heard the media being accused of being biased to Hillary against Obama

"Good try, Wolf, good try"- she's great in using Blitzer as a foil Very Happy

"Sen Obama do you think she was naive?" Shitstirrer..

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