Obama '08?

To take just one point for now, have you read my pretty lengthy by this point list of reasons why I think Obama is more electable than Hillary? Finn gave a great response (thanks again Finn!) but I don't think I've seen any response from you.

If you have a hard time finding them back, I'll go ahead and condense them into one (new) post.

sozobe wrote:

To take just one point for now, have you read my pretty lengthy by this point list of reasons why I think Obama is more electable than Hillary? Finn gave a great response (thanks again Finn!) but I don't think I've seen any response from you.

If you have a hard time finding them back, I'll go ahead and condense them into one (new) post.

Well to be honest we've gone to and fro on this a couple of times, havent we? Hardly just the one time. I'm sure you'll have seen my own by now pretty lengthy list of reasons why I have doubts about Obama's electability more than a couple of times too; including, in the course of our conversations, the reasons why I havent found the pro-Obama arguments you and others have proposed on those points persuasive yet.

From what I remember, the last time you answered I left it at that because I didnt think your points 'solved' the questions I raised, but would have just been repeating myself if I'd gone through them again one by one from my side. But we were just again going down that road on the Polls thread the other day though, when I listened to your arguments but on my part contended that I'm just not seeing it in the polls so far, and for now can only consider it a mere question of hope that your take will still materialise.

So yeah I understand that it may come across like old hat, but I thought that Drum's rundown of the demographic challenges involved here was concise and effective enough to post. I've seen lots of answers, but none that persuaded me that the fears/scepticism Drum expresses here are unjustified, so the observations still seem valid to me.

nimh-

Have you any idea how pompous that sounds to a bloke with four pints of John Smith's Extra Smooth under his belt.

Not that I wear a belt of course. I was speaking figuratively.

Belts are like shoelaces. Unnecessary now that elastic has been nearly perfected. Evolution weeds out unnecessary things.

You wouldn't have got past--"Well to be honest " in my pub without your listeners rolling all over the carpet laughing their socks off.

Tuesday, January 29, 2008


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTc3ZmFiNGM5MzM5ZTRkYmQzY2Y4Y2I4MzJhYTI5MzI=
Mitt'n'Mac [Mark Steyn]


I think I agree with Andrew Stuttaford from a gazillion hours ago this morning - that the outcome hinges on what the Dems do. If they nominate Obama, then (as Andrew says) it will be a "narrative" election. If the GOP nominates McCain, then it's young, gifted and black vs old, cranky and weathered. He might pull it off. But Obama/Romney is more problematic because Mitt hasn't got a "narrative" - or at least not one anybody cares about. Turning around companies is a great skill, but, in a presidential contest, it's doesn't mean anything if they're companies nobody's heard of. This has been Mitt's problem from the beginning. In NH and SC, McCain is the triumph of narrative over a 30-year record. It's anybody's guess what he'd do sitting in the Oval Office with a Democrat Congress.

Here's a thought to chill Andrew: Is Barack the new Blair? That is, if elected, will he be able (like Tone's first ministry) to push through big transformative changes under cover of the sheer dazzle of his glamor?

I'm rooting for Hillary to win big.


01/29 06:37 PM

If Richardson is to endorse either Clinton or Obama -- "I might, I might not, how's that for an answer?" -- he said he'll do so by the end of the week.

"If I do endorse, it's going to be a gut feeling. It's not going to be about statistics, about past ties," Richardson said. "I've been on the campaign trail with both of them. I feel that I know them. I feel I know the issues. I feel I know what makes them both tick."

nimh wrote:

sozobe wrote:

To take just one point for now, have you read my pretty lengthy by this point list of reasons why I think Obama is more electable than Hillary? Finn gave a great response (thanks again Finn!) but I don't think I've seen any response from you.

If you have a hard time finding them back, I'll go ahead and condense them into one (new) post.

Well to be honest we've gone to and fro on this a couple of times, havent we? Hardly just the one time. I'm sure you'll have seen my own by now pretty lengthy list of reasons why I have doubts about Obama's electability more than a couple of times too; including, in the course of our conversations, the reasons why I havent found the pro-Obama arguments you and others have proposed on those points persuasive yet.

From what I remember, the last time you answered I left it at that because I didnt think your points 'solved' the questions I raised, but would have just been repeating myself if I'd gone through them again one by one from my side. But we were just again going down that road on the Polls thread the other day though, when I listened to your arguments but on my part contended that I'm just not seeing it in the polls so far, and for now can only consider it a mere question of hope that your take will still materialise.

So yeah I understand that it may come across like old hat, but I thought that Drum's rundown of the demographic challenges involved here was concise and effective enough to post. I've seen lots of answers, but none that persuaded me that the fears/scepticism Drum expresses here are unjustified, so the observations still seem valid to me.

...I guess what irks me is that you try to come off as somehow objectively observing the whole thing. Anyone reading just a few pages of your (endless and tedious) posts would know better.

From the very first post you made to this thread you've said "color me skeptical", in one way or another. You've given no indication that your mind is open to anything but skepticism as far as Obama is concerned.

Anyone reading just a few pages of your (endless and tedious) posts would know better.

Schwarzenegger praises McCain and Obama
Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

Tuesday, January 29, 2008


California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, weighing in on the presidential race, said that both Republican presidential candidate John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama are on the right track in "talking about bringing people together" across partisan lines.

And, he said that the high profile and competing endorsements the Kennedy family - not including his wife Maria Shriver - in the Democratic presidential contest represents a dramatic departure from past years.

"What's interesting is that, within the family, for the first time you have different opinions," he said. "I've been in the family 30 years, and I've never seen that...that's really the story - what created that, and how Caroline and Teddy hooked up with the same opinion, and Kathleen ended up going with Hillary."

"I don't know the whole scoop, because it just happened, " he laughed. "But eventually we'll find out."

Schwarzenegger was referring to the news that Shriver's cousins, Caroline Kennedy and Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island, and her uncle, Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama Monday in a dramatic event at American University. But other family members, including former Maryland lieutenant governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the daughter of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, and said her brother Bobby and sister Kerry do as well.
Schwarzenegger declined to address a possible endorsement by his wife, saying "you'll have to ask her yourself."

But sources in the office of the California First Lady, who is the daughter of Eunice Kennedy Shriver and Sargent Shriver - and the niece to Ted Kennedy, the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy and the late president John F. Kennedy - said today that Shriver currently has no plans to endorse in the 2008 presidential race.

Shriver political sympathies could be valuable to both Clinton and Obama in the race: she is an active First Lady who has been a leading advocate of women's issues - and she is also a good friend to talk show host Oprah Winfrey, who has endorsed Obama.

Schwarzenegger, during a wide-ranging session with the Chronicle editorial board, also declined to formally endorse a GOP presidential candidate. But the California governor didn't rule it out - and came closest when he said that McCain should be congratulated for working across party lines to get things done, despite being hammered by conservative pundits around the country as being too friendly with Democrats. .

"I think that you should never worry about being hammered," he said. "If you want to lead, there will always be people against it. I hear this kind of stuff all the time."

McCain "is smart to continue talking about those issues. It is smart for Obama to continue talking about those issues, crossing the line," Schwarzenegger said. "You will see worldwide, more and more people are going to look at that as a way of bringing people together. And there's nowhere more important to do that than in America."

Schwarzenegger said he will appear with President Bush at an economic event in the Los Angeles area this week. And he will also be present at the live televised GOP debate from the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, where he is expected to escort Nancy Reagan to watch the final meeting of the candidates before the Feb. 5 Super Tuesday primaries.

well here's a news flash for all you dickies... you can say it doesn't mean anything all you want... but Obama is getting the **** kicked out of him in Florida by Hillary. and believe it, those delegates WILL end up seated.

Have a nice night. :wink:

boo hoo sweetie...