I used to wonder how Obama would 'play' in places like Benton Harbor. I think I'm getting the picture.
He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
J_B wrote:He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
Nah, just another transparent attempt at button-pushing. BernardR likes that.
Some folks are like the discussion forum equivalent of a festering sore. You can ignore them, but they just get to be a worse problem, and a bigger pain.
BernardR wrote:Gungasnake- You may be aware that Senator Obama has some other problems which may, eventually, reveal themselvers as even more problematic. When he was a child, he attended a Muslim School for several years. Who knows what influences he may have picked up there which he harbors in his heart of hearts. His father was a Muslim!!!
Source? Why, his own autobiography!!!
Sounds like the guy could have made it on Saturday Night Live:
Obam - Obamma - Slammite, or some such....
J_B wrote:He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
No. He's unelectable to the US
presidency because he's a
liberal Democratic Senator.
Heh.
And a bigger "HEH" to you and maybe a "FEH!" as well Sierra Song. In your dreams...the times are changing rapidly and you maybe caught up in your little/big wurlitzer. Who knows?
Yeah, and I'll bet you were spewing that "times they're a changin'" crap back on Nov. 2, 2004.
J_B wrote:He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
I would truly like to believe that couldn't make a man unelectable, but...
SierraSong may well be right and that, I for one, would like that much better.
OCCOM BILL wrote:J_B wrote:He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
I would truly like to believe that couldn't make a man unelectable, but...
SierraSong may well be right and that, I for one, would like that much better.
Your last sentence isn't entirely clear, bill. The object of "that" is ambiguous.
But if membership in a minority religion effectively disqualifies a candidate in the US, shouldn't we yell about that a little, so as to forward a fundamental value of the Bill of Rights and Constitution? Shouldn't we also try to figure out the forces pushing towards exclusion?
A similar issue came up recently in a legal case I was peripherally involved with. Plaintiff counsel in Michigan tried to suggest that a doctor couldn't be an acceptable expert witness as he'd worked for Saddam Hussein.
hunh
The fella is Muslim, his name is clearly Muslim, his early education (through part of university) was in Iraq. He finished his university education in the U.S., did his residency in the U.S. He's been very vocal in the community he lives in supporting the U.S invasion of Iraq.
but 'he worked for Saddam Hussein'.
Being Muslim, or perceived to be Muslim, can clearly be a problem in the US - at least in Michigan.
blatham wrote:OCCOM BILL wrote:J_B wrote:He's unelectable because he went to a Muslim school as a child and his father was a Muslim? That's hysterical.
I would truly like to believe that couldn't make a man unelectable, but...
SierraSong may well be right and that, I for one, would like that much better.
Your last sentence isn't entirely clear, bill. The object of "that" is ambiguous.
But if membership in a minority religion effectively disqualifies a candidate in the US, shouldn't we yell about that a little, so as to forward a fundamental value of the Bill of Rights and Constitution? Shouldn't we also try to figure out the forces pushing towards exclusion?
Yeah, Bill's meaning was a little unclear to me, as well.
But Blatham, as far as "yelling about it", we may as well start our yelling with the fact that his race and traditional ideas about civil rights would disqualify him in a lot of folks' minds.
OK, so here's what I'm wondering at this point...
I think it's safe to say that SierraSong would never, ever, in a million years, vote for Obama because of his positions, regardless of his race or name.
He's not going to get 100% of the vote, period.
What I'm curious about, more than SierraSong, is the more independent and centrist voters who maybe held their nose and voted for Bush mostly because they were voting against Kerry, and who would love to vote FOR someone.
Phoenix! Gotta ask Phoenix what she thinks.
soz
I'm seeing her Monday. I'll put the question to her.
snood
In terms of real situation, yes, race is a problem with much larger ramifications for more people.
But it presents a question I hadn't considered before...who would have a greater disadvantage running for president, a non-white or a Muslim? Right now, I think for sure it would be the latter. It's not at all certain that even a Jew could make it, not to mention a Hindu or Buddhist.
And the sub-question, does Obama fall in the "Muslim" category? There is of course his name, but he's not Muslim in any meaningful way, and is in fact an outspoken Christian. (I really like the stuff he has been saying about Democrats and religion, by the way, very much in keeping with Jim Wallis who I've admired a great deal.)
sozobe wrote:And the sub-question, does Obama fall in the "Muslim" category? There is of course his name, but he's not Muslim in any meaningful way, and is in fact an outspoken Christian. (I really like the stuff he has been saying about Democrats and religion, by the way, very much in keeping with Jim Wallis who I've admired a great deal.)
ask Hindus in the US who are still looked at suspiciously every day
ask the A2K friend I had dinner with last night
ask the people who posted about 'the name' on the first page of this thread
'the name' could eaily pose a problem
Of course it can. When I was reminded (by Wikipedia) that his middle name was Hussein, I made the comment that, "it's not just his last name, he has a surreally bad middle name. Full name: Barack Hussein Obama. OOF!"
I was responding to Blatham's post; "who would have a greater disadvantage running for president, a non-white or a Muslim?" Is Obama a Muslim?
Damn I want this man to run!!
I assume that the political operatives at the top level of both parties are bright. I assume both have been analysing and polling Obama's chances and strategizing from the results.
The Republican take would be "what do we do if he does run in 2008 or 2012". They will already have plans, at some degree of sophistication, to counter this challenge.
Obama supporters, or those at the top in the Dem party planning crowd, will be analyzing both Hillary's status and what they feel the Republicans would mount against Obama.
But if I was in on one of those meetings, I'd say what some are surely saying:
- his smarts are superior
- his charisma is exceptional, extremely exceptional
- his faith presents the likelihood that a significant portion of the electorate now supporting Republicans on the issue of faith will be drawn to him
- he's African American and this, along with the earlier pluses, presents a prospect of enormous hopefulness, not just for a Dem win but for a much more important and broader potential to invigorate the African American community to enthusiastic activism in concert with everyone else who is not a diehard racist or Republican or theist-hater.
The possibility here for a sweeping repair of the divisiveness of the last two decades gets me extremely enthusiastic.
Hell, just consider the possible consequences of what SS slimed earlier. What would the response be in the Muslim world if American elected a black man whose father was a Muslim and whose middle name was Hussein??!
Would someone PLEASE give Hillary a blowjob.
Quote:ask the A2K friend I had dinner with last night
Tell that fellow that, had he stopped by while here, I would have worn my wife-beater tshirt for him.
soz
Yes, I know what his religious affiliations are. My rhetorical question was just a little thought experiment.
