Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:21 pm
Well, I'm glad someone is keeping an eye on Bill these days. Thanks for the report. :wink:
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:28 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
teenyboone wrote:
eoe wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't understand the 'messianic' label attached to Obama. I don't feel that way at all.Cycloptichorn


Me either. This is all so borderline Magical Negro-ish that's it's ridiculous. Now you can't simply have a black man who transcends on his merits, his accomplishments, his experience. Oh no. He's got to be Messianic. Supernatural.

You guys really are sad.

Explain what borderline magical negroish means. As an African American, I take offense to your bigoted description, of us Question What?
Is that a little like "entitled whites", who think they have the right to look down thier bigoted, racist, noses, at people, they consider their lessers?
Your slip, is showing! Evil or Very Mad


Clearly eoe is a racist. And as an African American, teenyboone has the right to proclaim eoe as such.

Laughing

<munch>


She said and then YOU responded. So now, I came back 3 pages to remind you, that you inserted yourself, into my response from another poster. You're what they call an "instigator"!

TRANSITIVE VERB:
in·sti·gat·ed , in·sti·gat·ing , in·sti·gates

1. To urge on; goad.
2. To stir up; foment.
So now what? Cool
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:28 pm
I'm here for you Laughing
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:28 pm
:-)

Here's Ezra Klein's take:

Quote:
CLINTON TRIES TO REINSTATE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA'S DELEGATES.

This is a very, very, very big deal. From the Clinton campaign:

    I hear all the time from people in Florida and Michigan that they want their voices heard in selecting the Democratic nominee. I believe our nominee will need the enthusiastic support of Democrats in these states to win the general election, and so I will ask my Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan. I know not all of my delegates will do so and I fully respect that decision. But I hope to be President of all 50 states and U.S. territories, and that we have all 50 states represented and counted at the Democratic convention. I hope my fellow potential nominees will join me in this. [b]I will of course be following the no-campaigning pledge that I signed, and expect others will as well.[/b]



This is the sort of decision that has the potential to tear the party apart. In an attempt to retain some control over the process and keep the various states from accelerating their primaries into last Summer, the Democratic National Committee warned Michigan and Florida that if they insisted on advancing their primary debates, their delegates wouldn't be seated and the campaigns would be asked not to participate in their primaries. This was agreed to by all parties (save, of course, the states themselves).

With no one campaigning, Clinton, of course, won Michigan -- she was the only Democrat to be on the ballot, as I understand it, which is testament to the other campaign's beliefs that the contest wouldn't count -- and will likely win Florida. And because the race for delegates is likely to be close, she wants those wins to matter. So she's fighting the DNC's decision, and asking her delegates -- those she's already won, and those she will win -- to overturn it at the convention. She's doing so right before Florida, to intensify her good press in the state, where Obama is also on the ballot. And since this is a complicated, internal-party matter that sounds weird to those not versed in it (of course Michigan and Florida should count!), she's adding a public challenge that, if the other Democrats deny, will make them seem anti-Michigan and Florida.

But if this pushes her over the edge, the Obama camp, and their supporters, really will feel that she stole her victory. They didn't contest those states because they weren't going to count, not because they were so committed to the DNC's procedural arguments that they were willing to sacrifice dozens of delegates to support it. It's as hard as hardball gets, and the end could be unimaginably acrimonious. Imagine if African-American voters feel the rules were changed to prevent Obama's victory, if young voters feel the delegate counts were shifted to block their candidate.


Re: the two bolded parts -- doesn't it seem like this is a version of campaigning? "Unlike the other candidates, I value Florida's voters and want them to be able to have their say." (Paraphrase.) Then the press that comes along with it...

Just a spare thought.

Here's another article about it with a bit more factual info:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1707293-2,00.html
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:30 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Plus, was there even any American on this thread who made that connection?
Both BpB and Maporsche alluded to similar spooky feelings.

Neither said or implied anything about Hitler or any resemblance to him or his appeal. So your whole comment there was just off.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
"Gosh, I'm so creeped out because the crowd really likes that guy." is a silly argument.

Yeah, that would be a silly argument, if it had been made.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:35 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Unfortunately (for me), Californians are polling her as number one.

Are you referring to the latest Field Poll showing Clinton in a double-digit lead over Obama? If so, did you read the fine print to discover they only polled 377 people?

Well, he could be referring to any of seven polls that were done this month by the LA Times, Survey USA, Datamar, EMC, Rasmussen or Field. Every one of them had Hillary in #1.

With decreasing margins, so there's still hope for Obama to overtake her - but so far it hasnt happened. (Unless theres a new poll out just today or yesterday that I missed).
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:50 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Well, I'm glad someone is keeping an eye on Bill these days. Thanks for the report. :wink:

Couldn't reply, okay?
Thanks! Cool
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:51 pm
Yep, I've looked at the ones tracked on Politico. Most of them counted under 500 people. One of them was around 800 people.

In a state with 35 million people, 15 million of which are registered voters, it is difficult to believe that around 500 people represent what 15 million people might vote for , especially when you consider that the many Obama rallies this year have each attracted as many as 15,000 to 25,000 attendees.

We'll know the accuracy on Feb. 6th. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 06:52 pm
teenyboone wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
Well, I'm glad someone is keeping an eye on Bill these days. Thanks for the report. :wink:

Couldn't reply, okay?
Thanks! Cool



You're welcome. :wink:
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:01 pm
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Plus, was there even any American on this thread who made that connection?
Both BpB and Maporsche alluded to similar spooky feelings.

Neither said or implied anything about Hitler or any resemblance to him or his appeal. So your whole comment there was just off.
Whatever. Thomas couldn't have been any clearer. You think he made his comments in a vacuum? Rolling Eyes Or that I was the only one who read them, and that the subsequent comments had nothing to do with them? Whatever. The conversation was inane the first time around. I'm not repeating it just because you're feeling frisky.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:04 pm
nimh wrote:
I still havent seen Obama's speech from last night yet myself, will do once I can - Stasia's asleep so I'm being quiet now. I'm betting that I'll like it - he does great speeches, and I read that this one was his best yet. But I share some of Thomas's sensitivities as well, so I guess I might also well 'get' what he's talking about when I watch it.

Finally got around to seeing it. I did, as expected, like it - I liked it a lot. Very, very strong speech. Halfway through I said to Anastasia that it was much better than Hillary's speech in Nashville last night, but she disagreed - not better, "just different". But by the end she was moved too - especially by the bit about the woman who had sent Obama a cheque for $3,01.

I've had the kind of hesitant feeling the others have described about Obama before - and particular, by the Obama fans' reaction to Obama. But I had no such reservations listening to this speech - I thought it was just good.

I didnt so much like all the emphasis on how it's wrong to describe America as divided, that you're all facing the same things together and having the same hopes - I think thats just not true, and I think that the deeply entrenched social, economic, and also racial divisions are for real and should be addressed as such, not kind of smoothed away in a feel-good "united nation" appeal. But then, I'm not running for President, and he is, and I understand that if he is to win, he needs to take another approach, with a can-do, united, message of hope.

And he does do so very convincingly. I dont think there's been a candidate with such a powerfully appealing message about being a country that battles times of depression with the power of hope since.. Ronald Reagan's "Morning in America" stuff I guess.

Again, personally I feel sceptical when he calls for universal healthcare, for a stop to targeting tax cuts to the richest and for aiming them at struggling middle class families instead, only to pivot to how this "is not about rich versus poor". Well, it is: the corporations and top earners have their lobbyists in DC working to get those tax cuts aimed at them rather than Joe Sixpack, so it is about fighting them and sticking up for the other side instead. But I understand, I understand - thats not how you win elections, thats not how you can make Americans feel good about themselves and good about joining your cause for change.

And he articulates that cause very powerfully - and compared to Edwards' (in my eyes more honest) narrative of fighting the powers to be, in a much more widely appealing way.

Not that anybody gives a fig, but compared to earlier this month when I felt there was really no difference much anymore between Hillary or Obama in terms of what they would do and would be able to do once in office, I'm off the fence again now. Mostly because how low and lame Hillary's campaign has gone - the stuff about Florida now just takes the cake. But a speech like this doesnt hurt of course.

I wish a guy like Edwards could become President in America... but thats just not feasible, I guess. Obama's certainly the next best.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:09 pm
I give a fig!
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:12 pm
sozobe wrote:
I give a fig!
Me too. Glad to see you choose the best alternate.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:18 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Plus, was there even any American on this thread who made that connection?
Both BpB and Maporsche alluded to similar spooky feelings.

Neither said or implied anything about Hitler or any resemblance to him or his appeal. So your whole comment there was just off.
Whatever. Thomas couldn't have been any clearer. You think he made his comments in a vacuum? Rolling Eyes

Dude, take a minute to actually read the posts you're responding to, please? Look in the bit quoted from me right above: "was there even any American on this thread who made that connection?" American.

Thomas was the only one who made that connection. He's not American, and I think that given to where he's coming from - and any place in Europe would qualify, really - it should be understandable that we can be a bit instinctively hesitant about a certain kind of audience response, when we're witnessing the appeal of charisma.

Neither BpB or Maporsche, however, made any kind of connection with Hitler or Nazis or anything like that - (now Jesus, he was mentioned) - so you were just flat out wrong to say so. And even Thomas's point was hardly "Great Speaker = Hitler-Danger", hello.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 07:28 pm
Quote:
I wish a guy like Edwards could become President in America... but thats just not feasible, I guess. Obama's certainly the next best.


that lil' thing about who's "certainly" second best, between Obama and Edwards?



strictly a matter of opinion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 08:01 pm
Kennedy to endorse Obama. Good!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 08:03 pm
teenyboone wrote:
You're what they call an "instigator"!


Moi???
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 08:07 pm
http://www.camajorityreport.com/index.php?module=articles&func=display&aid=2670&ptid=9

Breaking News: Obama Supporters Scuttle Hillary's CTA Endorsement!
January 26, 2008 @ 3:27 PM

Score a big behind the scenes victory for Obama's California campaign today. Word is leaking out that CTA's membership staged an outright mutiny at Los Angeles' Bonaventure Hotel and bucked its own Board's attempt to railroad through an early endorsement for Hillary. CTA's elites apparently got a big wake up call when their effort to crown Hillary as the official choice of California's teachers was upended by overwhelming resistance from rank and file Obama supporters. The vaunted pre Feb 5th CTA endorsement - which was widely expected to go Clinton's way - appears to now be postponed to April (when we will all be on the edge of our seats, I am sure).

The Hillary repudiation at CTA is more than just inside baseball. This could portend an erosion of support among powerful constituencies that are supposed to be the bedrock of Clinton's California operation. Add this development with Obama's superior California ground game, and a big bounce coming out of South Carolina, and he may have enough steam to pull off a victory in the Golden state.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 08:15 pm
nimh wrote:
I wish a guy like Edwards could become President in America... but thats just not feasible, I guess. Obama's certainly the next best.


Did you read this Krauthammer article, Nimh, and what do you think about it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 09:02 pm
I hope you're right, Butrflynet; that would be very good news indeed!
0 Replies
 
 

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